China Flanker Thread II

[SinoSoldier]

But that is a different issue: Fact is the Su-35S came out much earlier and as such became ready for service much earlier. To compare them with the J-11D and say the D is a fiasco even if it barely flew only two years ago, is IMO a bit over-critical.

Just to remind: How long did we have to wait the J-10B or J-16 to enter service ?? And are they failures or fiascos too ?

Deino

There are ongoing reports that the J-11D is undergoing delays and problems stemming from its inadequate powerplant and airframe. Don't be surprised if the PLAAF orders more Su-35s to cover themselves while the J-11D fights to see another day.

 

[Deino]

There are ongoing reports that the J-11D is undergoing delays and problems stemming from its inadequate powerplant and airframe. Don't be surprised if the PLAAF orders more Su-35s to cover themselves while the J-11D fights to see another day.

That's a different issue: I know these reports & rumours quite well, but I beg to differ if they are related to "airframe, avionics and powerplant" or related to "not as ready as the Su-35", which would be a major surprise after only two years IMO.

Deino

 

[SinoSoldier]

That's a different issue: I know these reports & rumours quite well, but I beg to differ if they are related to "airframe, avionics and powerplant" or related to "not as ready as the Su-35", which would be a major surprise after only two years IMO.

Deino

These delays will push the entry-into-service date further back, which makes purchasing the Su-35 more attractive. So, in that sense, the Su-35 is definitely "more ready" since the PLAAF wants a comparable fighter quite quickly.

 

[Deino]

These delays will push the entry-into-service date further back, which makes purchasing the Su-35 more attractive. So, in that sense, the Su-35 is definitely "more ready" since the PLAAF wants a comparable fighter quite quickly.

Yes ... I completely agree with You, the only "concern" I have is the term "fiasco", but in that sense I think we are purely discussing semantics and feelings.

 

[Air Force Brat]

There are ongoing reports that the J-11D is undergoing delays and problems stemming from its inadequate powerplant and airframe. Don't be surprised if the PLAAF orders more Su-35s to cover themselves while the J-11D fights to see another day.

There's no doubt that the Chinese Flanker pilots are very impressed with OVT, and it won't surprise me in the least for them to buy a couple hundred SU-35s, and to buy an AL-41 or similar with OVT for the Sino Flanker D

The very robust Flankers are quite capable of handling the very rapid pitch transitions of OVT, and the Flanker probably benefits more than other airframes from the installation of OVT!

 

[Franklin]

How long would it take for China to develop a 3D or even 2D TVC engine ? Is there even a program at the moment to develop it ? If there is not lets hope that the SU-35 convinces them to start one.

 

[Lethe]

If J-11D is significantly delayed then it becomes irrelevant owing to the maturation of J-20.

That does not mean the project is a complete failure. Lessons learned (and from Su-35 as well) can be incorporated into J-11A/B upgrades and future J-15 and J-16 variants.

 

[Air Force Brat]

How long would it take for China to develop a 3D or even 2D TVC engine ? Is there even a program at the moment to develop it ? If there is not lets hope that the SU-35 convinces them to start one.

The engineer has stated that there is little interest in OVT,, but no doubt the SU-35 will change that metric when it starts kicking butt in those very low energy transitions that you almost inevitably find yourself drawn into??

 

[Air Force Brat]

If J-11D is significantly delayed then it becomes irrelevant owing to the maturation of J-20.

That does not mean the project is a complete failure. Lessons learned (and from Su-35 as well) can be incorporated into J-11A/B upgrades and future J-15 and J-16 variants.

Not necessarily, the USAF is maintaining a healthy mix of F-15C's and high block number F-16's, no doubt China will continue to build high letter Flankers as well!

A fifth gen is overkill for so many missions, and comes at a price, about 2X in real life the cost of a J-20.

 

[jobjed]

The engineer has stated that there is little interest in OVT,, but no doubt the SU-35 will change that metric when it starts kicking butt in those very low energy transitions that you almost inevitably find yourself drawn into??

A pilot who gets himself into situations where he needs super-manoeuvrability is a pilot who doesn't deserve to fly.

Energy is life, agility helps only when it doesn't compromise energy state. The fanciful rolls and turns endemic to TVC robs pilots of energy; it's a form of agility that gets pilots killed by turning them into a sitting duck. I'm sure there will be many lessons learnt from the use of Su-35s but the combat prowess of TVC will not be one of them.