China Flanker Thread II
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About J-11B some help plscan't find payload 6.5 t as Su-27/J-11 or 8 t as Su-30 and better range as J-11 ?
This is strictly reading the "tea leaves", but my sense is the J-11B is an Su-30/J-15 class aircraft, and will likely be rated for a max load, now it may be operated most of the time in the lower weight class to improve performance until it has more powerful engines, but it will carry a very good load. As far as range, it will have sufficient tankage, internal/external to stay with the heavier gross aircraft.
Quickie
Colonel
About J-11B some help pls
WS-10A is slightly more powerful than the original engine that came with the earlier Chinese flankers. Those specs at the very least shouldn't be any worse than the earlier flankers.
Why is the Maximum load dependent from the Hard-points ? Following this logic, the F-15E would have nearly twice the load-capability in comparison to the vanilla F-15C.
The structure of the airframe is the Center issue ... As such, features the J-11D a structure similar to the Su-30, it could carry more, is it based only on the Fighter-Flanker, it could carry less.
The structure of the airframe is the Center issue ... As such, features the J-11D a structure similar to the Su-30, it could carry more, is it based only on the Fighter-Flanker, it could carry less.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
8 ton lift is a hell of a lot of weapons !!!
Actually maximum load depends on a number of variables, I have at times flown aircraft that were over gross??? for instance a Cessna 172 had a gross of 2200 to 2300 lbs??? if your aircraft had long range tanks, and you filled them, it was a 2 place aircraft instead of 4 place. The J-11B should have the higher thrust WS-10s, it also likely has carbon fiber in copious amounts, which "could theoretically" reduce empty weight. I have very little doubt that the J-11B is rated at around 8,000lbs usefull load, pilot, RIO, fuel, and ordinance. Additional hard points actually add to the empty weight, but if you have the reserves thrust and lift they may actually up your gross weight.
Most aircraft on military missions fly under gross weight, the advantage of that is great margins of safety and performance. In fact most aircraft marginally loaded over gross only lose performance, and the ability to carry Gs without permanent damage as long as the load is carried with the design center of gravity. As I recall our 172 at gross weight was rated to be safely flown to 3.8 Gs in the NORMAL category with the seats full. Drop the gross weight, and carry only two passengers and it was licensed in the utility category at 4.2 Gs and approved for "intentional spins".
Point being that gross weight is a figure that may only depend on paper work, lots of aircraft have had the gross weight increased with a simple paper work change.
Not really for her size we get better F-15E 11t, Rafale 9.5, F-35, 9 Typhoon 7.5, last F-16 7.7 t and the three last clearly less heavy !
in fact for her weight Flanker especialy last Su-30 versatile ( Su-34 do 45 t ! ) don' t carry a big payload 8 t but have much hard points 12 curious but have a very good range maybe depends fuel or ?
In fact carry a big a number of AAM but a more small air to ground weapons load as Western équivalents.A thing also Chinese actual Flanker have now radars inferiors vs 4.5 West figters gen. and the last in fact 3rg gen of Flanker Su-30MKI/SM Su-35.
Then J-11D and J-16 with a AESA are necessary for Chinese.
First Soviet Su-27P used only by PVO and S in Frontal Aviation variants different payload 4/4.4 t was only or almost interceptor with nothing or very few air to ground weapons as F-15A-D which are obviously the more heavy.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
The Chinese expect to fight a very different fight and enemies compared to most western air forces, so their requirements are correspondingly different.
For modern western air forces, a big part of the mission profile and emphasis is on bombing hopelessly outclassed enemies even further back onto the stone age. Thus the emphasis on heavy weapons loads so they can dump a lot of ordinance per sortie.
The thing is, at max load, even the best fighter bomber is going to start wallowing like a transport. Not an issue if everything in the sky is friendly and the opponent has no air defence worth mentioning.
China expects to fight opponents who are on par, if not superior technologically. Thus, being able to carry 10-12 or more tones doesn't really appeal if that makes their planes sitting ducks.
The PLAAF is unlikely to be carrying even their 8t full load much if any of the time in combat, so its really a moot point in my view.
For modern western air forces, a big part of the mission profile and emphasis is on bombing hopelessly outclassed enemies even further back onto the stone age. Thus the emphasis on heavy weapons loads so they can dump a lot of ordinance per sortie.
The thing is, at max load, even the best fighter bomber is going to start wallowing like a transport. Not an issue if everything in the sky is friendly and the opponent has no air defence worth mentioning.
China expects to fight opponents who are on par, if not superior technologically. Thus, being able to carry 10-12 or more tones doesn't really appeal if that makes their planes sitting ducks.
The PLAAF is unlikely to be carrying even their 8t full load much if any of the time in combat, so its really a moot point in my view.
Agree for combat capability especialy Chinese.
About the weapons load in general used in wartime missions an idea/example :
Air to Air missions : AAM are not heavy in general 100/300 kg depends range SR to LR or more for very long range as AA-9 futur AA-13 but only used by one fighter the Mig-31.
Then in general a very good fighter, 25/30 t max carry 6/8 AAM you have a load of 1.5 t about with 2 tanks say about 2t total of 3.5 t about 30/50 % of the max payload 8/11 t.
Carry much is mainly a problem for agility very few for range instead air to ground weapons.
Air to ground missions : air to ground weapons in general used are more heavy talking vs a true Army and not ISIS or other which are not, in general bomb of 500 kg up to 2 t sometimes as GBU-28 as for AAM a a rough calculation a fighter of 4.5 gen carry about 4 x 1 t + fuell total 6 t and there 50/70 % of the max payload 8/11 t
Can' t to be exact ofc missions profile also, weather, carrier operations mainly for STOBAR !etc... for give an idea.
Moreover with STOBAR limitations the J-15 would be used essentialy as Su-33 for A2A combat in fact defend the TF, 2nd mission anti-ships with 2 missiles can be intersting but no big load of bombs. Same for Mig-29K.
In more i have see Su-30 under wings hard points carry max bombs of 500 kg only, Western 1/2 t ! between engines possible up to 1.5 t but only one, wings more fragile ? then a clearly difference for payload with Western 4.5 gen competitors which do the same max weight 30+t, 8t vs 9/11.
China also get much combat aircrafts and each type are more specialized as Western.
About the weapons load in general used in wartime missions an idea/example :
Air to Air missions : AAM are not heavy in general 100/300 kg depends range SR to LR or more for very long range as AA-9 futur AA-13 but only used by one fighter the Mig-31.
Then in general a very good fighter, 25/30 t max carry 6/8 AAM you have a load of 1.5 t about with 2 tanks say about 2t total of 3.5 t about 30/50 % of the max payload 8/11 t.
Carry much is mainly a problem for agility very few for range instead air to ground weapons.
Air to ground missions : air to ground weapons in general used are more heavy talking vs a true Army and not ISIS or other which are not, in general bomb of 500 kg up to 2 t sometimes as GBU-28 as for AAM a a rough calculation a fighter of 4.5 gen carry about 4 x 1 t + fuell total 6 t and there 50/70 % of the max payload 8/11 t
Can' t to be exact ofc missions profile also, weather, carrier operations mainly for STOBAR !etc... for give an idea.
Moreover with STOBAR limitations the J-15 would be used essentialy as Su-33 for A2A combat in fact defend the TF, 2nd mission anti-ships with 2 missiles can be intersting but no big load of bombs. Same for Mig-29K.
In more i have see Su-30 under wings hard points carry max bombs of 500 kg only, Western 1/2 t ! between engines possible up to 1.5 t but only one, wings more fragile ? then a clearly difference for payload with Western 4.5 gen competitors which do the same max weight 30+t, 8t vs 9/11.
China also get much combat aircrafts and each type are more specialized as Western.
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