China Flanker Thread II

[MiG-29]

^ Yeah that didn't say anymore than what I did..

you can not modify the Su-27 much because the aircraft has a limit in modification, even the Su-34, Su-33KUB, Su-33, Su-30MKI and Su-35S are changing few elements and moslty the crew arragment and canopy configuration.
The J-11 can not do more.

The current Su-35S has just a lightly higher composition of lighter materials, some RAM and a modified AL-31 aka 117S, but most of the jet is a Su-27B, in fact the Su-35S is closer to the original aerodynamic configuration of the T-10S than the T-10M or Su-10IB aka Su-35 and Su-34.

 

[no_name]

In my opinion, the Su-27 variant and the later J-11, as well as the likes of the Sovremenny and Kilos, are obtained due to their superiority over then chinese systems but also more to shore up the PLA's bet in the events of something like Taiwanese independence happening. (during the late 90s and most of 00's this is actually probable. The Sovremennys will actually be used more against Japan/US interference)

It's just that even with foreign equipment the PLA is not satisfied until they've obsorbed it fully.
But I think the future of J-11 mod is limited - maybe J-15 and stealth variant if they are working on it being the last.

 

[asif iqbal]

well without Su27 and Su33 there wouldnt be a J11 or J15

but everyone has to start from somewhere it is no different for China

 

[tphuang]

They are license built aircraft, however they have some issues, the original contract called for 200 built with russian components, when China decided to cancel the delivery and import of Russian components, the original agreement was breached, the J-11B was one of the main issues, the Russian media reported that the J-11B and J-15 aircraft were illegal copies, however Russian high ranking officials claimed that Russia was on talks with China in order to fix and come to friendly terms on the issue.

So the legal agreement actual state is hard to know, much speculation has been written.

China already paid for the license for 200. As of 2010, they were still getting parts delivered as per original contract, so Russians are not loosing money from the original deal. They are not breaching the contract imo in that aspect. They are just making modifications outside of Russia's control. Russia wanted to be in on the contract of Chinese modifications and China did not like their upgrade proposals. The other thing is that Russia has no idea on how many flankers China will produce, so they would loose out after the first 200 is done. And the thing is, I don't think China wants any nation to know how many flankers they will have eventually. So, my hope is that they will work out something where China pays Russia a boatload of money to be able to produce flankers for domestic use and be allowed to make any modifications to the airframe that they would want.

 

[MiG-29]

China already paid for the license for 200. As of 2010, they were still getting parts delivered as per original contract, so Russians are not loosing money from the original deal. They are not breaching the contract imo in that aspect. They are just making modifications outside of Russia's control. Russia wanted to be in on the contract of Chinese modifications and China did not like their upgrade proposals. The other thing is that Russia has no idea on how many flankers China will produce, so they would loose out after the first 200 is done. And the thing is, I don't think China wants any nation to know how many flankers they will have eventually. So, my hope is that they will work out something where China pays Russia a boatload of money to be able to produce flankers for domestic use and be allowed to make any modifications to the airframe that they would want.

That is the realm of speculation, i only can say the Russian media claimed China was beaching the contract because they suspended the contracty after 100 kits were built and China built the J-11B without russian components, later on high ranking russian officials said the Chinese and Russian governments were working on an agreement to fix the issue.

what is the specific problem i do not really know what has been de solution i do not really know or even if they have agreed on one solution.

 

[kroko]

they will work out something where China pays Russia a boatload of money to be able to produce flankers for domestic use and be allowed to make any modifications to the airframe that they would want.

I doubt it. And even if it happens, i dont think china will be willing to pay much to russia.

 

[Curious George]

How did Russia end up "owning" the "rights" to the Su-27 family of aircraft anyway. Wasn't it developed by the Soviet Union and so shouldn't all former soviet states have equal rights to the design? I know that Ukraine had a prototype for the carrier version and China bought that from them, so who's to say that China didn't acquire the "rights" of making the design from the Ukrainians instead of the Russians.

 

[Blitzo]

Zzzz so I posted these in the AAM thread but it's relevant here as well, showing a J-11 (unit number blacked out) seemingly with a new PL-12 variant? (by paint scheme it looks PLANAF? maybe J-11BSH, but the engines leave me doubtful)
J-11 looks to be the PLAAF's preferred missile testbed? I remember seeing a couple of pics of a J-11 with a missile that looked like PL-10 a while ago too. Tis interesting.

 

[Deino]

Just another interesting observation ... on both J-11B's - the BH above and the B below - the numberes are psed ... so these seem to be operational Flankers and not just test-beds at SAC !??

 

[Blitzo]

Maybe they're trialling the missiles on operational planes?