China demographics thread.

[Lethe]

There are too many humans on the planet already and the reduction in fertility that corresponds with development worldwide is eminently a good thing; if population growth (or rather, mitigation of population decline) is required to serve nationalist ends that should be achieved through immigration.

 

[LawLeadsToPeace]

There are too many humans on the planet already and the reduction in fertility that corresponds with development worldwide is eminently a good thing; if population growth (or rather, mitigation of population decline) is required to serve nationalist ends that should be achieved through immigration.

That last sentence doesn’t even make sense. Nationalists aim to curb immigration since they view immigrants as a threat to their culture. Even if immigrants change their names and do whatever they can to assimilate into their new nation, they will never be fully trusted by nationalists and even non-nationalists. This type of behavior is prevalent in all nations and their histories. As for the human population being too large, why not manage the countries whose populace is growing too quickly via development? That creates new markets and reduces the chances of cultural and ethnic clashes. Yes, it’s significantly tougher, but it is beneficial in the long run. Plus, their population growth will also slow down, thereby reducing the number of humans on the planet. Finally, for developed countries, fiscal policies can be used to help population growth by encouraging and discouraging certain behaviors. The US uses taxation to incentivize the populace to have kids.

 

[Maikeru]

Endless reams written about cultural, economic and sociological factors leading to declining TFR across the developed world. But I do wonder if some environmental factor is at play? Male sperm and T-counts have been in decline for decades. Could be pollution from oesterogen in contraceptive pills, plastic microfibres, or something else?

 

[Overbom]

But I do wonder if some environmental factor is at play? Male sperm and T-counts have been in decline for decades. Could be pollution from oesterogen in contraceptive pills, plastic microfibres, or something else?

I doubt it. If the problem was that people were trying but just couldn't conceive a child then I would agree with you.

However if you check any research you will see that people just dont want to have children. And when they are together they just use contraceptives to prevent pregnancy

If things get bad enough (that's where things are going unless something changes) then the ultimate solution could be a contraceptive ban.
We would then see if humans can suppress sexual desire (hint: impossible, especially at young ages).

 

[Maikeru]

I doubt it. If the problem was that people were trying but just couldn't conceive a child then I would agree with you.

However if you check any research you will see that people just dont want to have children. And when they are together they just use contraceptives to prevent pregnancy

If things get bad enough (that's where things are going unless something changes) then the ultimate solution could be a contraceptive ban.
We would then see if humans can suppress sexual desire (hint: impossible, especially at young ages).

What about the much documented declines in sperm and t-counts though?

 

[Overbom]

What about the much documented declines in sperm and t-counts though?

That's true. However my point still stands, the problem in the demographics is not declining sperm count but people using contraceptives to avoid conceiving a child

If we had people who actively wanted to have children but couldn't conceive then I would admit that the declined sperm count was the issue. However, the problem currently, is that peiple are actively taking measures to avoid having a child

Btw declining sperm count is a serious medium-long term problem which IMO will be eventually solved by medical advances in the future

 

[BlackWindMnt]

That's true. However my point still stands, the problem in the demographics is not declining sperm count but people using contraceptives to avoid conceiving a child

If we had people who actively wanted to have children but couldn't conceive then I would admit that the declined sperm count was the issue. However, the problem currently, is that peiple are actively taking measures to avoid having a child

Btw declining sperm count is a serious medium-long term problem which IMO will be eventually solved by medical advances in the future

Is the declining sperm quality a world wide or only a western thing? Western media like to talk as if the west is the only part of the world that counts.

 

[Overbom]

Is the declining sperm quality a world wide or only a western thing? Western media like to talk as if the west is the only part of the world that counts.

Should be worldwide. There are some studies that point towards microplastics being the main cause. Its certainly a very difficult thing to study

In any case, I am not as concerned as others. As long as you try, you will eventually "score". IMO the most serious problem in demographics is that people are actively taking measures to avoid conceiving a child.

---

Anyway, its not only microplastics, it is also about obesity, smoking, taking drugs (marijuana), chemicals in various everyday products such as plastic bottles, metal food cans, detergents, flame retardants, food, toys, cosmetics and pesticides. Its a mess, just think about how much exposure we have with these things everyday..

 

[Arcgem]

Besides the socioeconomic blockers to child rearing, something not often talked about is whether parenthood currently has a marketing problem. It could be that the current urbanized generation views the typical parenting lifestyle as outdated and old-fashioned. Instead of trying to appeal to them with traditional family values, what if there was a way to "rebrand" parenthood as something trendy and modern?

Like if there was an app catering to young couples that provides TikTok (or Douyin)-style highlights of other couples' lives. The app could be designed to showcase the family life as something trendy through the kinds of content it displays, with a recommendation algorithm that can walk a couple through the steps to parenthood. Couples that have yet to have any children could see clips that offer a peek into life during pregnancy. For couples that already have a single child, the app could recommend clips of children playing with their infant siblings.

Ethics aside, this still opens up a can of worms. A generation raised by social media and viral videos even before birth might come with its own problems and quirks. Still, if efforts to promote traditional family lifestyles fail, then the only way to maintain a stable population may be to adapt the idea of parenting to changing times.

 

[BlackWindMnt]

Should be worldwide. There are some studies that point towards microplastics being the main cause. Its certainly a very difficult thing to study

In any case, I am not as concerned as others. As long as you try, you will eventually "score". IMO the most serious problem in demographics is that people are actively taking measures to avoid conceiving a child.

---

Anyway, its not only microplastics, it is also about obesity, smoking, taking drugs (marijuana), chemicals in various everyday products such as plastic bottles, metal food cans, detergents, flame retardants, food, toys, cosmetics and pesticides. Its a mess, just think about how much exposure we have with these things everyday..

Aah microplastics, I stopped using plastic bottles and bought a 1 liter glass bottle like 4 years ago to prevent microplastics.

Seems like modern developed life is poisoning people maybe a little too much.