China demographics thread.

Proton

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While the "dragon-effect" seem to have taken place in China, adding half a million births, the same does not seem to hold true for Taiwan:
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While Taiwan does have a lot of net-migration, the population still dropped now that the Covid/post-Covid effects have largely subsided.
 

Eventine

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Marriages crashed 20% in 2024 compared to 2023, and constitutes just half of what it was in 2013. This bodes poorly for birth rates ahead.

There was a recent study showing that the main cause of birth rate collapse around the world was tied closely with marriage rates, and that governments were really addressing the wrong problem in trying to get families to have 2-3 children, because people who do have children, already favor having 2-3. The problem is so many people are perpetually single or jumping from relationship to relationship, that there's no way to make up for the birth deficit without getting married couples to have 5-6 children, which is not reasonable.

Getting people to marry more is difficult because marriage as an institution was fundamentally a component of patriarchy, where it served the purpose of maintaining social stability (fewer sexual feuds), incentivizing wealth creation (patrilineal inheritance), and keeping women in child-bearing roles (increased fertility). It also, to be fair, acted as a guarantee for women, for while elite men often violated the boundaries of marriage in keeping mistresses, they were still bound by the laws governing marital wealth, which provided for their wives' and children's economic security.

In modern times, all of this is thrown out the window. It is well-known that gender equality disincentivizes marriage for women, but in fact, sexual liberation and birth control also disincentivize marriage for men. From a woman's perspective, why get married if you don't need a man to be economically secure and successful? From a man's perspective, why get married if you can get sex without marriage and the legal and economic shackles that come with it?

Fixing or replacing marriage is key to improving fertility rates, but no government is bold enough to take the steps necessary. Simply incentivizing a broken institution financially will not bring it back; there has to be a complete revamp.
 

abenomics12345

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Marriages crashed 20% in 2024 compared to 2023, and constitutes just half of what it was in 2013. This bodes poorly for birth rates ahead.

There was a recent study showing that the main cause of birth rate collapse around the world was tied closely with marriage rates, and that governments were really addressing the wrong problem in trying to get families to have 2-3 children, because people who do have children, already favor having 2-3. The problem is so many people are perpetually single or jumping from relationship to relationship, that there's no way to make up for the birth deficit without getting married couples to have 5-6 children, which is not reasonable.

Getting people to marry more is difficult because marriage as an institution was fundamentally a component of patriarchy, where it served the purpose of maintaining social stability (fewer sexual feuds), incentivizing wealth creation (patrilineal inheritance), and keeping women in child-bearing roles (increased fertility). It also, to be fair, acted as a guarantee for women, for while elite men often violated the boundaries of marriage in keeping mistresses, they were still bound by the laws governing marital wealth, which provided for their wives' and children's economic security.

In modern times, all of this is thrown out the window. It is well-known that gender equality disincentivizes marriage for women, but in fact, sexual liberation and birth control also disincentivize marriage for men. From a woman's perspective, why get married if you don't need a man to be economically secure and successful? From a man's perspective, why get married if you can get sex without marriage and the legal and economic shackles that come with it?

Fixing or replacing marriage is key to improving fertility rates, but no government is bold enough to take the steps necessary. Simply incentivizing a broken institution financially will not bring it back; there has to be a complete revamp.

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In the lunisolar calendar, New Year's Day might be before or after Lichun. A year without Lichun is called 無春年 (no spring year). 無春年 is also known as 寡婦年 (widow year) in northern China or 盲年 (blind year) in southern China. Marriage is believed to be unlucky in a year without Lichun.
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Wangxi

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Marriages crashed 20% in 2024 compared to 2023, and constitutes just half of what it was in 2013. This bodes poorly for birth rates ahead.

There was a recent study showing that the main cause of birth rate collapse around the world was tied closely with marriage rates, and that governments were really addressing the wrong problem in trying to get families to have 2-3 children, because people who do have children, already favor having 2-3. The problem is so many people are perpetually single or jumping from relationship to relationship, that there's no way to make up for the birth deficit without getting married couples to have 5-6 children, which is not reasonable.

Getting people to marry more is difficult because marriage as an institution was fundamentally a component of patriarchy, where it served the purpose of maintaining social stability (fewer sexual feuds), incentivizing wealth creation (patrilineal inheritance), and keeping women in child-bearing roles (increased fertility). It also, to be fair, acted as a guarantee for women, for while elite men often violated the boundaries of marriage in keeping mistresses, they were still bound by the laws governing marital wealth, which provided for their wives' and children's economic security.

In modern times, all of this is thrown out the window. It is well-known that gender equality disincentivizes marriage for women, but in fact, sexual liberation and birth control also disincentivize marriage for men. From a woman's perspective, why get married if you don't need a man to be economically secure and successful? From a man's perspective, why get married if you can get sex without marriage and the legal and economic shackles that come with it?

Fixing or replacing marriage is key to improving fertility rates, but no government is bold enough to take the steps necessary. Simply incentivizing a broken institution financially will not bring it back; there has to be a complete revamp.
I've noticed that there are more and more radical feminists on the Chinese internet, importing woke ideas from the West. I hope the Chinese government will crack down on that.
 

ember

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Marriages crashed 20% in 2024 compared to 2023, and constitutes just half of what it was in 2013. This bodes poorly for birth rates ahead.

There was a recent study showing that the main cause of birth rate collapse around the world was tied closely with marriage rates, and that governments were really addressing the wrong problem in trying to get families to have 2-3 children, because people who do have children, already favor having 2-3. The problem is so many people are perpetually single or jumping from relationship to relationship, that there's no way to make up for the birth deficit without getting married couples to have 5-6 children, which is not reasonable.

Getting people to marry more is difficult because marriage as an institution was fundamentally a component of patriarchy, where it served the purpose of maintaining social stability (fewer sexual feuds), incentivizing wealth creation (patrilineal inheritance), and keeping women in child-bearing roles (increased fertility). It also, to be fair, acted as a guarantee for women, for while elite men often violated the boundaries of marriage in keeping mistresses, they were still bound by the laws governing marital wealth, which provided for their wives' and children's economic security.

In modern times, all of this is thrown out the window. It is well-known that gender equality disincentivizes marriage for women, but in fact, sexual liberation and birth control also disincentivize marriage for men. From a woman's perspective, why get married if you don't need a man to be economically secure and successful? From a man's perspective, why get married if you can get sex without marriage and the legal and economic shackles that come with it?

Fixing or replacing marriage is key to improving fertility rates, but no government is bold enough to take the steps necessary. Simply incentivizing a broken institution financially will not bring it back; there has to be a complete revamp.
How would you revamp marriage to make it more useful for the average person?

I think Chinese government officials have become "people pleasers", they can no longer afford to implement strict measures for fear of alienating the middle class, many of whom would simply move abroad if pushed too hard. Any measure perceived as restrictive or unfavorable to women has become politically untenable.
 

coolgod

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How would you revamp marriage to make it more useful for the average person?

I think Chinese government officials have become "people pleasers", they can no longer afford to implement strict measures for fear of alienating the middle class, many of whom would simply move abroad if pushed too hard. Any measure perceived as restrictive or unfavorable to women has become politically untenable.
Tie marriage status to promotion of bureaucrats. Promote tax/housing policies which favour married couples.

Ban bride price. Crack down on (western sponsored) extreme feminism, like the ones that ruined Korea.

In addition they need to open up marriage markets for foreign brides, the white worshipping women can always leave if they hate China so much.
 

Moonscape

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Tie marriage status to promotion of bureaucrats. Ban bride price. Crack down on (western sponsored) extreme feminism, like the ones that ruined Korea. Promote tax/housing policies which favour married couples.
None of these are enough to make a difference.

Modernity caused this problem, and modernity will have to be the solution: somehow, healthcare has to improve so that people can have longer reproductive/working lifespans, technology has to make pregnancy and childbirth less painful and more convenient, and automation has to make child-rearing cheaper and less tiring/burdensome on parents. Unless all of the above can be accomplished within 50-100 years, humanity will go extinct like the "rat utopia" experiment. There's no other solution; there's no going back to the old days.
 

coolgod

Brigadier
Registered Member
Modernity caused this problem, and modernity will have to be the solution: somehow, healthcare has to improve so that people can have longer reproductive/working lifespans, technology has to make pregnancy and childbirth less painful and more convenient, and automation has to make child-rearing cheaper and less tiring/burdensome on parents. Unless all of the above can be accomplished within 50-100 years, humanity will go extinct like the "rat utopia" experiment. There's no other solution; there's no going back to the old days.
I'm giving practical suggestions that can be implemented by the Chinese government right now, you are just praying for a tech miracle in the future.


This vlogger captured one of those white worshipping Hui Chinese girl, who recites the trope of how China sucks no freedom and America is the best. I genuinely hope she manages to find some sort of "fReEDuMb" outside China, instead of blaming her unhappiness on China.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
How would you revamp marriage to make it more useful for the average person?

I think Chinese government officials have become "people pleasers", they can no longer afford to implement strict measures for fear of alienating the middle class, many of whom would simply move abroad if pushed too hard. Any measure perceived as restrictive or unfavorable to women has become politically untenable.
They can, they can literally take women out the workforce into motherhood if become a "national security" problem. Remove every single birth control method out the population, and believe me, they can. The Western garbage media, if still exist after Trump, will complain and all that bullshit but who cares. But I don't think things will reach that point. China is automating at a incredible pace, AI will be in every aspect of China society and the government is pushing to automate every aspect of the economy. In military terms China has so huge population that you can basically replace the army with 18 years olds every single year. Not that they will need in the future too because that is automating too.
 
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