China demographics thread.

[LKK815]

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China hasn't gotten as bad as Japan's holographic waifus, but we're getting there:

China’s Newest Dating Craze: Real-Life Meetups With Virtual Boyfriends​

During the pandemic, women across China became infatuated with the dashing male characters in a series of viral video games. Now, many are hiring cosplayers to bring their digital beaus to life.
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Girl, you need better friends. That is some sh_tty advice.

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Please no. Don't turn into Japan 2.0 for ffs.

Look at the end of the day it's a fake virtual thing. It's not a real person no matter how much you lie to yourself.

How to increase birth rate when this kind of fad exist.

 

[luminary]

You can't eat patriotism. You're asking women who have spent the better part of their lives studying and getting a degree just to throw all that away after a few short years in the workforce to go have kids, which would be a hard sale. I think education level is probably inversely proportional to the desire to have children.

I agree with the later part of the statement, which is the fact that educational level and progressivism correlates with the desire to have children. This is in part due to the perception of children impeding personal life quality and individuality, not reality.

This is another poisonous neoliberal concept and a dire falsehood. China must reeducate their society that modernization truly is not equal to Westernization, all of its self-defeating concepts included.

Israel presents a unique context for studying motherhood’s impacts on employment and earnings:

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. Compellingly, past research finds small motherhood penalties in Israel.

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while climbing the corporate ladder, unlike their American peers who remained either unmarried or childless until their careers were established or even beyond.

Following a birth, Jewish women return to employment at higher rates and more quickly, with almost 70 percent being employed within 9 months of giving birth. This is robust among all Jewish women, regardless of educational attainment.

These statistics are insane.
Even among the most educated and least fertile Israelis, the secular Jewish - the norm is already 2–3 children.

Even more impressive considering the lack of an educational gap between Jewish men and women:

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Other societal factors that make child rearing possible:

• The vast majority of families live relatively close to one another (at least compared with countries like the US-an hour s drive is considered living far away), and most secular Jewish Grandparents help with small children.

• Affordable childcare from 730–1700 for ages 3 and up is the norm. (also, beginning in 3rd or 4h grade - kids walk home alone and take care of themselves)

• In most secular Jewish families the father will take the children in the morning while the mother goes to work early and then the mother will pick them up, and have a couple of days were she stays late. This is possible because many jobs have international hours (US companies) so parents can work at night.

• There are very few women in areas that truly demand many hours. (For instance embedded programing has few women, but banking systems programmers are often women. These distinctions also often get lost in Cumulative statistics )

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I agree with the later part of the statement, which is the fact that educational level and progressivism correlates with the desire to have children. This is in part due to the perception of children impeding personal life quality and individuality, not reality.

This is another poisonous neoliberal concept and a dire falsehood. China must reeducate their society that modernization truly is not equal to Westernization, all of its self-defeating concepts included.




These statistics are insane.
Even among the most educated and least fertile Israelis, the secular Jewish - the norm is already 2–3 children.


Other societal factors that make child rearing possible:

so more WFH, more 24/7 work scheduling, and safer neighborhoods? not hard for China to match tbh.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

so more WFH, more 24/7 work scheduling, and safer neighborhoods? not hard for China to match tbh.

It's definitely a challenge that can be challenged and won, the problem though, is both the attention/will (time needed) and resources (costs) needed.

And currently, it seems like for China (national government), they are prioritizing resources and attention to other places (well, some local governments are trialling/trying some measures, but as a whole, it's too 'little').

 

[Quan8410]

Only revival of Confucianism is the best hope for China to conquer the demographics issue. No more neoliberal incentive bullshit. Why the Arab and Israel have so many children despite being relatively wealthy, its because their culture said so, no other reasons. Even the concept of "Common prosperity" dated back to Confucianism. China have this attitude against child-bearing coz they smoke too much western shit, just like they smoked too much oppium during the Qing dynasty, and abandon their culture which is already suitable for fostering child-bearing.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

It's definitely a challenge that can be challenged and won, the problem though, is both the attention/will (time needed) and resources (costs) needed.

And currently, it seems like for China (national government), they are prioritizing resources and attention to other places (well, some local governments are trialling/trying some measures, but as a whole, it's too 'little').

well if we fail, there's a backup: export AI powered otaku culture to the whole world and drag them down too

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. sings, dances, hosts talk shows.

original song:

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dance:

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talk show:

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perhaps this is too China specific and can only reach Chinese speaking audiences, maybe Japanese?

well... here's a Viet segment for her.

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Chinese anime with 12.5 million views on Bilibili Vietnam:

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[luminary]

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In 2018, mothers of children ages birth to 4-years-old had similar employment rates to those among mothers of older children or women without children. Furthermore, Taub Center researchers found that among non-Haredi Jewish women employment rates are similar for women without children and mothers with 1 to 3 children.

In other words, it's completely possible for China to have a fertility rate as high as 2.5-3.0 and not suffer even an incremental decrease in productivity or individual quality of life. Especially with growing automation.

I think an important take-away here is that children are only a burden if you let them be. If society can culturally glorify child-rearing and create a welcoming environment for families, we can realize a harmonious future without compromising the happiness of the people.

 

[tankphobia]

I agree with the later part of the statement, which is the fact that educational level and progressivism correlates with the desire to have children. This is in part due to the perception of children impeding personal life quality and individuality, not reality.

Culture drives policy, I agree that the western neo-liberal concepts of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps tend to stop government from adopting pro-natalism policies, but I'll also content that Israel had pretty unique circumstances that makes it easy to convince people to have children. Up until recently its arab neighbours were almost constantly threatening the annihilation of Israel, for them population growth was basically a matter of life and death for the Jewish state as a whole, culture inertia alone will drive reproductive trends for a few generations.

For China there is no such pressure, there has been peace for a generation and none of its enemies posesses the will/forces to completely erase the state and to create such a drive in the people will require a insane amount of social engineering that I'm not sure the government has the will to implement.

In fact the one child policy was within living memory, with parents seeing the benefits of having less kids on family financial stability, it would be difficult to erase such mindsets.

 

[Reclaimer]

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The study by the YuWa Population Research Institute said the cost of raising a child until the age of 18 in China was 6.9 times its gross domestic product per capita.

This was the second highest in the world, behind South Korea, where the cost is 7.79 times higher than its GDP per capita.

“The high cost of childbearing is one of the most important factors affecting the willingness of families of childbearing age to bear children,” the report said.

“To this end, policies to reduce childbearing costs for families of childbearing age need to be introduced at the national level.

“Specific measures include cash and tax subsidies, house purchase subsidies, building more nurseries, providing gender-equal maternity leave, introducing foreign nannies, promoting flexible working styles, guaranteeing the reproductive rights of single women, allowing assisted reproductive technology and reforming the college entrance examination and school system.”

A nationwide survey by the National Health and Family Planning Commission in 2017 found that 77.4 per cent of women of childbearing age said “heavy economic burdens,” were the top reasons for not wanting more children after feeling “too old” or “not having anyone to take care of the child”.

The YuWa report estimated that the average cost of raising a child from birth to 17 years old in China is 485,000 yuan (US$69,430), while the cost of raising a child to college graduation is about 627,000 yuan.

The average Chinese worker earned 105,000 yuan a year in 2021, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.

There is a significant urban-rural divide as well. The average cost of raising a child to age 17 in cities is 630,000 yuan, more than twice the cost in the countryside.

The average cost of raising a child in Beijing and Shanghai is 969,000 yuan and 1,026,000 yuan, respectively, while the cost for families in Tibet is only 293,000 yuan.

 

[Dark Father]

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Non paywall source of the same article.

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