"China" - BBC Two's new 4-part documentary

KYli said:

They should also ask the people what issue do they concern with the most, you might suprise that most common Chinese people just don't give a damn about what these reporters were having in minds.

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*Sigh* :coffee:

Did you see the programme? Because they were asking people what they wanted. In fact one of the most telling comments was from an old woman that said something along the lines of "I don't care who wins [the local village election], because they're all the same. If they give us enough food and medical care then that's enough."

AssassinsMace said:

No news media anywhere in the world is objective, neutral, and non-bias. That's including the Western media and the BBC. Just like people believe documentaries are objective and neutral when they all have agendas from the very beginning.

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That is a very fair comment, though I would have to say there are differing levels of bias and objectivity - and that I would say the BBC is better than many other media groups.

I like to know from those that live in Great Britain, do they teach the truth about the Opium Wars there or do they still claim the trade was all about economics.

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This is O/T, but I'll just respond quickly because I had a chat with someone about this recently. Up until recently it wasn't really taught in schools at all because the Empire wasn't taught at all. And before you think it's a whitewash, it's because the academic "left" effectively took it off the curriculum, as they thought it was "inappropriate" to talk about the Empire because someone might suggest there was a positive aspect to it.

Other academics have been pushing to bring the Empire (and Commonwealth) back into school so that it can be taught in a relatively balanced way, so kids can actually learn what went on.

But obviously this isn't the place to talk about that, so as ever let's get back on topic. (Lol, perhaps I should add that to my sig!)

I agree with Sampan, Roger, and KYli. BBC may seem unbiased to you, but to people with Chinese worldviews they are totally off the mark. Afterall, BBC is geared towards British audiences, and to make their ratings do well they have to use the appropriate point of view based on the western system of values. It's a cultural clash. I don't blame them for their style, they need to do it for their audience. But to assert that they are unbaised is hogwash. It's like doing a documentary on the US and concentrating on neglect of the elderly, divorce, World Cup coverage, College entrance exams, "societal harmony" blah blah and then call these the central issues to Americans.

In the end, what all does it matter. Britons get the impression of China they want to hold. "Oh China, that place. It's sort of growing but has these problems with democracy and human rights, I heard". And even if they are inspired to do something about it, what? Lobby their politician to "get tough on China"? Boycott Chinese goods? Go to China and spread a little democracy themselves? Approaching China, wanting it to change in their own image, just creates backlash. It's hard to persuade someone to do something, to change him or herself, only considering what is important to you, without concern of what is important to that person. To paraphrase someone else's idea, in the end, what foreigners know and believe matter little to China's future path. They aren't the ones on the ground, living it. To them, it's largely academic.

I am not going to join the debate here as I can see where it is leading to.

I can understand why someone wish foreign media only to report the fancy skyscrapers and affluent rich middle class in Beijing and Shanghai, but I want to remind you that it is not the whole story. If you have EVER been to those poor rural areas, you'll see the other side. I've been there and seen it, and it aint pretty.

By the way, why do you think BBC is watching China from 80's/90's viewpoint. Aren't those stories happending today?

RedMercury said:

I agree with Sampan, Roger, and KYli. BBC may seem unbiased to you, but to people with Chinese worldviews they are totally off the mark.....But to assert that they are unbaised is hogwash.

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I wouldn't agree with Roger if I was you.

Mace put it very well. I never said the BBC wasn't unbiased, but I think it's ridiculous to label it as being completely the other way. Perhaps you should read people's posts before you accuse them of things they never said.

In the end, what all does it matter. Britons get the impression of China they want to hold.

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And they're all different. I think it's extremely prejudiced of you to say that all Britons think of China as you describe. They have very different views. They very fact you made such a sweeping statement shows your own lack of objectivity.

This mini-series is seeking to give people an insight into a country they know very little of. Do you really think the BBC would waste time and money to try to get people involved in something as futile as reforming China through external pressure? :roll:

It has so far shown just one part and so far I can only be sure one of the critics has actually watched it - and even then it seems as if he watched 15 minutes and then switched off because he decided it was "unfair". I find it hugely amusing that people are coming here to bitch about something they haven't even watched. If anyone is rolling out stereotypes it's those that are accusing the BBC of having an agenda to criticise China and wanting to force it to be as they want it. The BBC doesn't have the problem, I think it's those people that automatically believed it was "unfair".

EDIT: I think Dongfeng has a point on where this discussion is going. If people really feel strongly about the BBC, they can start a thread to discuss it.

If anyone finds an online stream or download of the BBC program, please post. It'd be much appreciated.

On a similar note PBS in the States have also made a two-episode program on China's recent development, more focused on economics and the environment. Forgot the title of it but it's only a year or two old. So check it out if you have a chance.

PanAsian said:

If anyone finds an online stream or download of the BBC program, please post. It'd be much appreciated.

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Pan, I did have a quick look for such a thing. There don't seem to be any at the moment. That said, the torrents I found of BBC TV all seemed to be from the 12th backwards. So if you check about this time tonight (or tomorrow, depending where you are) you might get lucky. Just do a general seach for "BBC" on a torrent site, sort by date and if there's one in the next few days you should be able to see it.

Dongfeng said:

I am not going to join the debate here as I can see where it is leading to.

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I think this is a wise chioce.

I can understand why someone wish foreign media only to report the fancy skyscrapers and affluent rich middle class in Beijing and Shanghai, but I want to remind you that it is not the whole story. If you have EVER been to those poor rural areas, you'll see the other side. I've been there and seen it, and it aint pretty.

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Rich middle class and fancy skyscrapers aren't the whole story of China, but either poor countryside and farmers could tell us complete picture of modern china of today. But Western media and BBC widespread bias against China are quite noticeable, there is hardly any positive news of china. I won't dispute that China's media is no better, but since these news media proclaim to take an unbiased and neutral stance. I would rather think they should be less prejudice and more truthful.

I have been to both rural areas and the cities. I knew the extent of poverty and corruption in rural areas, it's also quite clear the level of resentment many Chinese feel toward those in power, particularly at the local to regional level. Actually even major cities such as Beijing and Shanghai have their share of social unrest. Or I am ignorant to see the environmental degradation, collapsing public health system, poor education system and neglect of the poor in China.

But as I said, BBC only reports the negative of China. It won't help the Western people to truly understand China or Chinese. As much as discontent of many Chinese, CCP recent years of sucessful rapid economy growth and prosperity have won significant popular supports from mainstream Chinese and contained any riots from out of control. And cultural and ideology difference would imply different priority and concerns, BBC should have done a better job to understand Chinese first.

By the way, why do you think BBC is watching China from 80's/90's viewpoint. Aren't those stories happending today?

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I am not particularly talking about this documentary, but rather the generalization and bias altitude of many BBC reporters and documentaries. If BBC wants to report an unbias and modern viewpoint of China, its western system of values and agendas should be less visual, and focus more on realistic point of view. Most of BBC documentaries were only reporting part of the stories, and refused to acknowledge others sides of view. Or when there are two smiliar circumstances of two difference nations, BBC treats one very different from other. Or the reporters still think China as a communism nation(which in name only), and never take a more full scale look of changing of China. Even Financial Times has better understanding of China than BBC, at least it is more realistic.

KYli said:

But as I said, BBC only reports the negative of China.

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Most media groups only report on "problems" regardless of what country it's about. If you look at the BBC reporting of UK issues, you will find that it does the same thing mostly. Foreign reports always tend to be things like riots, natural disasters, etc, inter-spaced with the odd "cute" story. That's to be found everywhere across the world. This is certainly the case when dealing with countries far away from where the media group is based.

There's always plenty of reporting on the financial success of China. And I would say that most "negative" reports show both sides of the story, unless it's something that would obviously be regretable.

That's all I want to say on the BBC itself, for now, rather than constantly repeat myself.

OMG, did anyone see "Imagine... A Short History of Tall Buildings" on BBC 2?

Wow, such negative reporting of China. All those glittering tall buildings and urban development really made Shanghai look poor and backward. This is another clear example of the BBC's bias towards China, much like the 4-part series we've been talking about! :roll:

FuManChu said:

OMG, did anyone see "Imagine... A Short History of Tall Buildings" on BBC 2?

Wow, such negative reporting of China. All those glittering tall buildings and urban development really made Shanghai look poor and backward. This is another clear example of the BBC's bias towards China, much like the 4-part series we've been talking about! :roll:

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I am not interesting to join the debate here, as I knew what it is leading to. But since I am one of fews here to suggest that BBC has always been somewhat negative about China, I will say that I didn't particularly accusing BBC as bias because of only this documentary.

In general, BBC holds a negative altitude of reporting as regarding China, if you want me to provide examples. I could probably provide a fews, but not that I think it would convince you or make any difference. You have already decide to hold a negative views of China and try to make China as a threat and bully as much as possible.