China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[Broccoli]

It is as this man says.

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Heavier warhead equals to more reliable warhead, and that is the reason why I think Chinese have not manufactured something like the very light (164kg) W76 what has some problems. Would Chinese designers take a risk and develop W76 style warhead based on five last tests between 1994-1996? I doubt it. If looked from a common sense perspective I think it's more likely that DF-31 RV is more similar to W87 than W76.

The chief concern regarding the warhead's design is the extremely light radiation case employed:

Leaders at Los Alamos wanted the case to be as lightweight as possible, so they envisioned it as extraordinarily thin - in places not much thicker than a beer can (albeit with plastic backing for added strength).

Its physical integrity was vital. The case had to hang together for microseconds as the exploding atom bomb generated temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun, forcing it to emit radiation that kindled the thermonuclear fire. If the case deformed significantly or shattered prematurely, the weapon would fail, its thermonuclear fuel unlit.

Although the very small performance margin implicit in this design caused concern when it was first developed the current controversy stems from a reivew of the warhead conducted in 1995-1996. Richard L. Morse, a physicist at Los Alamos until 1976 returned in 1996 to participate in the review.

Morse, who directed advanced concepts for bomb design as well as a separate group devoted to laser fusion, initiated simulation studies of the W76 and found that the margins were so thin that tiny irregularities in manufacture could lead to turbulence that would disrupt the case causing the weapon to fail.

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What RRW would have been like.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

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China introduce new class of short range missile that like the Russian Iskander hard to to defend against

Like the Iskander, the M20/DF-12 reportedly has built-in countermeasures, including terminal maneuverability, against theatre missile defense systems such as the U.S.’ Patriot PAC-2/3, which is deployed in Taiwan to protect major urban centers, and Taiwan’s indigenous Tien Kung II. It is said to be very accurate and reportedly relies on inertial navigation and global positioning system guidance, presumably China’s Beidou.

China’

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Missile buildup across the Taiwan Strait appears to be continuing apace, with reports appearing in Chinese media late last week that the Second Artillery Corps is now equipped with high-precision Dong Feng-12 (DF-12) short-range ballistic missiles (SRBM).

According to online reports and photographs (which includes official Chinese publications), the DF-12 is a re-designation of the M20 tactical SRBM, which China first unveiled at the International Defense Exhibition (IDEX) in Abu Dhabi in February 2011. The re-designation would confirm that the M20 is now fielded with the Second Artillery Corps, which operates China’s strategic nuclear forces and missile arsenal.

Analysts in 2011 pointed out that the M20 bore a striking resemblance to the Russian-made 9K720 Iskander (SS-26 Stone). While contemporary sources said they were unaware of China purchasing the Iskander directly from Russia, they pointed to the high likelihood that the technology was acquired via Ukraine or Belarus.

The single-stage solid propellant Iskander was developed in the late stages of the Cold War and entered Russian military service in 2006. The Iskander-M, intended for Russian forces, has a range of 400km, while that of the Iskander-E was established at 280km. Last week’s reports also set the range for the DF-12 at 280km.

Like the Iskander, the M20/DF-12 reportedly has built-in countermeasures, including terminal maneuverability, against theatre missile defense systems such as the U.S.’ Patriot PAC-2/3, which is deployed in Taiwan to protect major urban centers, and Taiwan’s indigenous Tien Kung II. It is said to be very accurate and reportedly relies on inertial navigation and global positioning system guidance, presumably China’s Beidou.

The missile carries an 880lb warhead and can deliver cluster, high explosive fragmentation, penetration and high explosive incendiary warheads. The transporter-erector-launcher (TEL) vehicle carries two missiles.

The Taiwanese military and the U.S. Department of Defense believe China has more than 1,600 missiles aimed at Taiwan. At present, the bulk of the Second Artillery threat against the island relies on the DF-11 SRBM, which is augmented by the DF-15 and DF-16 medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) introduced in recent years. The addition of the DF-12 will add yet another layer of land-based missile systems targeting Taiwan and will further complicate its air-defense efforts while underscoring efforts to centralize command-and-control of China’s missile forces for greater effectiveness.

The Taiwan Strait is 230 km at its widest and as little as 130 km at its narrowest

 

[kroko]

Analysts in 2011 pointed out that the M20 bore a striking resemblance to the Russian-made 9K720 Iskander (SS-26 Stone). While contemporary sources said they were unaware of China purchasing the Iskander directly from Russia, they pointed to the high likelihood that the technology was acquired via Ukraine or Belarus.

The single-stage solid propellant Iskander was developed in the late stages of the Cold War and entered Russian military service in 2006. The Iskander-M, intended for Russian forces, has a range of 400km, while that of the Iskander-E was established at 280km. Last week’s reports also set the range for the DF-12 at 280km.

Some points about this:

Im not an expert on BM but AFAIK neither Belarus nor ukraine possess iskander. Iskander wasnt developed in the soviet era. Its a russian federation only missile. Iskander-E isnt an older version of the system. Its the export version, downgraded to comply with the MTCR treaty which forbids the sale of missiles with range of 300 km or more.

How could china got hold of iskander tech is beyond me. Unless they bribed a lot of people in russia. Or the article is an atempt to downplay china´s ballistic missile technology, showing that the best that it can do is copying a soviet era missile, at the same time proping the china threat story. Perhabs someone knows better, but this is the first impression i get from this story.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Some points about this:

Im not an expert on BM but AFAIK neither Belarus nor ukraine possess iskander. Iskander wasnt developed in the soviet era. Its a russian federation only missile. Iskander-E isnt an older version of the system. Its the export version, downgraded to comply with the MTCR treaty which forbids the sale of missiles with range of 300 km or more.

How could china got hold of iskander tech is beyond me. Unless they bribed a lot of people in russia. Or the article is an atempt to downplay china´s ballistic missile technology, showing that the best that it can do is copying a soviet era missile, at the same time proping the china threat story. Perhabs someone knows better, but this is the first impression i get from this story.

We will never know for sure But typically weapon development is not an overnight flash inspiration Though it was deployed after the separation of old Soviet Union . The germination or research and development most likely start long before the break up of soviet union. Ukraine could possible get involve in the design of the missile.

Or the Chinese could developed on their own After all the Chinese cruise missile has evading terminal maneuver so it is not nothing impossible for them to do it .

And why you think China is behind Russia when it come to missile technology. If anything Russia 3 consecutive failure in sending Satellite to the space show deteriorating of their rocket science since soviet union break up.
Bulava is only now deploy after 12 years of constant failure well I am being generous more like 14 years/
Again Kroko you underestimate China capability and overestimate Russian

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Russian experts on Monday questioned how wise it is to adopt the troubled Bulava intercontinental missile for service, suggesting it would cause more security problems than it would solve, the Kommersant daily said.

First Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Sukhorukov said on Sunday a presidential decree putting the missile into operation was drafted and ready to be signed.

However, military analyst Viktor Baranets said it was a “reckless” and “dangerous” move since the missile was underdeveloped.

“In its current form the missile could be even more dangerous for the [Russian] navy than for an enemy navy,” he said.

President Dmitry Medvedev said in late December that the Bulava SLBM flight tests were completed and it will now be adopted for service with the Russian Navy.

Russia successfully test launched two Bulava missiles on December 23.

Only 11 of 18 or 19 test launches of the troubled Bulava have been officially declared successful.

The Bulava (SS-NX-30) SLBM, developed by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology (since 1998), carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage ballistic missile is designed for deployment on Borey-class nuclear submarines.

 

[rhino123]

Some points about this:

Im not an expert on BM but AFAIK neither Belarus nor ukraine possess iskander. Iskander wasnt developed in the soviet era. Its a russian federation only missile. Iskander-E isnt an older version of the system. Its the export version, downgraded to comply with the MTCR treaty which forbids the sale of missiles with range of 300 km or more.

How could china got hold of iskander tech is beyond me. Unless they bribed a lot of people in russia. Or the article is an atempt to downplay china´s ballistic missile technology, showing that the best that it can do is copying a soviet era missile, at the same time proping the china threat story. Perhabs someone knows better, but this is the first impression i get from this story.

We will never know for sure But typically weapon development is not an overnight flash inspiration Though it was deployed after the separation of old Soviet Union . The germination or research and development most likely start long before the break up of soviet union. Ukraine could possible get involve in the design of the missile.

Or the Chinese could developed on their own After all the Chinese cruise missile has evading terminal maneuver so it is not nothing impossible for them to do it .

And why you think China is behind Russia when it come to missile technology. If anything Russia 3 consecutive failure in sending Satellite to the space show deteriorating of their rocket science since soviet union break up.
Bulava is only now deploy after 12 years of constant failure well I am being generous more like 14 years/
Again Kroko you underestimate China capability and overestimate Russian

Sorry Hendrik... I really didn't see anything in Kroko's post that suggest that he underestimate the Chinese capability. In actual fact, I from the story that I read in your previous post, it gave me the impression that the author of that story you post, underestimated the Chinese capability. It is like, whatever good the Chinese done, it must be copied from the Russian (this I disagreed 100%).

Also I would not go as far as to underestimate the Russian either. Yes, they did have some rough patches now since the break up of the Soviet, and their defense budget was a shadow of what they are in the past, but they have the talents, the experience and slowly they have the money too (selling oil and weapons) and not to mention, they do have a big and powerful military R&D base that was left over from the Soviet era.

 

[kroko]

We will never know for sure But typically weapon development is not an overnight flash inspiration Though it was deployed after the separation of old Soviet Union . The germination or research and development most likely start long before the break up of soviet union. Ukraine could possible get involve in the design of the missile.

Unlikely. We are talking here of the very last years of the USSR. Remember that the vast majority of the USSR military-industrial complex was located/headquartered in the Russian SFSR. Ukraine/Belarus must have gotten little to nothing on the project, certainly not much help for the Chinese. The vast majority of the development was certainly in the Russian federation.

 

[shen]

funny article on a serious topic, nuclear arms talk between China and the US.

Chinese to American "really, trust us, we are not to nuke you first."
American to Chinese "bs. we and the Russians were going to do it. now show us everything."

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[BigWang]

There are a lot discussion in the China military circle, that if China uses ASBM against carriers then get them sunk then opponent might consider tactical nuke reprisal against ASBM support system and military targets.

China military is considering putting tactical nukes onboard warships and subs as deterrence against opponent's tactical nuke reprisal against China's ASBM usage.

 

[bd popeye]

Big Wang.. welcome to SDF.

Apparently you've not read the forum rules. Please do so..

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[BigWang]

^Thank you.

I updated myself in the introduction thread.