Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[FairAndUnbiased]

I'm curious about one thing. Like why nobody (both US and China) make a stealth AWACs? Then I read somewhere that basically radar and other electronic can compromise your stealth. I don't know if it's true. Also, when J-20 met F-35, the American said about that J-20 used KJ-500 electronic warfare plane for the tactical awareness in the battlefield. So basically J-20 used only their passive radar, and depend on KJ-500 bigger radar to detect F-35.

If radar / avionic really compromise the stealth feature, then how F-35 and NGAD to be used as a node as an information exchange in the battlefield? Doesn't the role basically give some of their signature and then compromise the stealth? Please, if someone know about it, explain it to me. Or maybe it never about a long range node?

you can't see a signal that was not sent your way, whether accidentally (due to broadcast, unintentionally being in the line of sight or scatter) or intentionally (radar scanning).

modern communications is directional. if you are not in the line of sight, you can't see it.

radar needs to scan in all directions. If you don't scan something, there is no scatter from it. If there is no scatter from it, you can't see it on radar. but if you scan something, that something might have a passive receiver, and it might know that it's been scanned.

 

[georgehawk]

next gen? 7th gen fighter ! ?

 

[Temstar]

I'm curious about one thing. Like why nobody (both US and China) make a stealth AWACs? Then I read somewhere that basically radar and other electronic can compromise your stealth. I don't know if it's true. But if it's not true, then what prevent them to make a stealth AWACs? Also, when J-20 met F-35, the American said about that J-20 used KJ-500 electronic warfare plane for the tactical awareness in the battlefield. So basically J-20 used only their passive radar, and depend on KJ-500 bigger radar to detect F-35.

If radar / avionic really compromise the stealth feature, then how F-35 and NGAD to be used as a node as an information exchange in the battlefield? Doesn't the role basically give some of their signature and then compromise the stealth? Please, if someone know about it, explain it to me. Or maybe it never about a long range node and only below 50 km range to another asset?

Well this happened just now so...

Not stealth, but UAV AWAC might be the next best thing?

 

[BoraTas]

If I remember correctly, the chief designer of the J-20 said that the 6 gen aircraft. must be equipped with THz-band radar to achieve absolute superiority over the 5 gen aircraft.

I very highly doubt such a thing was said. THz radar is an internet meme. They are not appropriate for long range detection of anything. They are envisoned for medical imaging and security scanners. They might find some use in short range imaging radar applications but that would be it in terms of military uses. And there they would have to compete with lidars.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I very highly doubt such a thing was said. THz radar is an internet meme. They are not appropriate for long range detection of anything. They are envisoned for medical imaging and security scanners. They might find some use in short range imaging radar applications but that would be it in terms of military uses. And there they would have to compete with lidars.

If I remember correctly, the chief designer of the J-20 said that the 6 gen aircraft. must be equipped with THz-band radar to achieve absolute superiority over the 5 gen aircraft.

THz is within the atmospheric absorbance bands.

Their wavelength is ~0.1 mm to 1 mm.

It is a poor choice for atmospheric propagation.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I'm curious about one thing. Like why nobody (both US and China) make a stealth AWACs? Then I read somewhere that basically radar and other electronic can compromise your stealth. I don't know if it's true. But if it's not true, then what prevent them to make a stealth AWACs? Also, when J-20 met F-35, the American said about that J-20 used KJ-500 electronic warfare plane for the tactical awareness in the battlefield. So basically J-20 used only their passive radar, and depend on KJ-500 bigger radar to detect F-35.

If radar / avionic really compromise the stealth feature, then how F-35 and NGAD to be used as a node as an information exchange in the battlefield? Doesn't the role basically give some of their signature and then compromise the stealth? Please, if someone know about it, explain it to me. Or maybe it never about a long range node and only below 50 km range to another asset?

Your AEW platform would usually have a longer sensor range than a fighter. That means your fighter can sneak up as close as it can and then fire using the AEW to lock on. The enemy won’t know it was there where all its attention is on the AEW until it’s too late. Less time to react at least and your AEW will safely be far away.

This is what supposedly happened in the recent encounter of an F-35 and a J-20. An F-35 was flying somewhere off China over the water when a J-20 snuck up from behind. Details weren’t given but a KJ-500 was also mentioned to be involved. How did a J-20 sneak up to an F-35? It was because the KJ-500 detected the F-35 and led the J-20 to intercept it. The Air Force General who mentioned this incident said the Chinese handled their aircraft well and the US needed their E-7s as soon as possible. Does that mean they had an E-3 also out there and it couldn’t see the J-20 sneaking up to their F-35?

 

[enroger]

Initially I thought about the possibility of it carrying air launch YJ-21 and thought it was ridiculous due to the size of the missile. Then I realize this thing can fling those missiles at M2 plus, 20km altitude, this will massively reduce the size of the booster (rough estimate shave off halve of the solid fuel) compared to one carried by H-6. Thoughts?

On a tangent, geometrically speaking the center bay may even be deep enough to house a rotary rack for six PL-17 telephone poles.....

 

[iewgnem]

Well China can not afford two....yet. These are prototypes. Like all programs like these, prototypes are one thing while mass production is another. My only issue is that people assume now that China is ahead and that it's time to celebrate. We don't know the status of NGAD. They could have flown 4 different prototypes but it doesn't mean they're acquiring 4 different air frames

- If you read through SAC's thread you'll find China might just be able to afford more than just 2, lol
- If NGAD design wasn't scrapped, China would be ahead, if NGAD was scrapped and China had 1 airframe, China would be far ahead, but NGAD design is scapped, and China has at least 2, which means its already over. That's just objective observation.
- We know the status of NGAD, it's rethinking it's life choices, which means all the balsa wood RC planes they flown by definition will never be, and therefore were never NGAD.
- What make you think China hasn't flown any prototypes before this week? Infact China's demonstrator is actually visible on satellite, there's zero evidence US have anything other than that Top Gun prop.

 

[iewgnem]

Like I said, China's 6th gen might not fulfill requirements from NGAD. Also didn't the US fly a couple prototypes a couple years ago? I'm still cautious about what is known public VS reality of NGAD.

China just defined the requirement for NGAD, it is why the old American NGAD design, which doesn't meet NGAD requirements China defined, got sent back to the drawing board.

Reality of NGAD is there zero evidence it exist, if you think it does exist and it's a big secret, well China already showed off 6th gen, so China's 7th gen might as well also exist and is also a big secret. US is behind once again.

 

[iewgnem]

That's the point, you don't.

The whole idea of using such a bland, generic term is to get people to ask themselves why it has such a broad name rather than automatically stereotyping characteristics to it if it's called a "fighter" or "fighter bomber" or "striker" or "bomber" in context of being "XYZ generation".

By using a bland, generic name you force people to actually think about what "combat" means in the modern age for aircraft and into the future.

The point of calling it 6th gen is it's a simple concept that effectively rub in the humiliation into American' simple brains and demoralize them into making irrational decisions, decisions that given their financial and technical limitations they could not afford to get wrong.

Technical discussion can ignore the term, but the term should be used everywhere and all the time.