Cars! Cars! Cars!
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
The next evolution for IC engines for hybrids I think would be one optimized with the electric motor, meaning that the engine would consistently operate at its peak power/mileage efficiency ratio for electrical generation. This would simplify a large number of parts in such an engine and could even use new systems like rotary valves.
Wow, that Honda Insight looks like a Honda version of a Prius.
I heard rumors that Prius might end up becoming a brand name of its own, no longer Toyota Prius, but Prius as in Lexus and Scion. Then the different cars under the Prius name maybe like Prius A, Prius B, Prius C, etc,.
Underneath the name "hybrid", the approaches are still very different.
Lets say Toyota's Synergy Drive and Honda's IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). Their difference goes down to the fundamental concept.
Synergy Drive works like this.
Engine => Transmission <= Electric Motor
IMA on the other hand, works like this:
Engine => Electric Motor => Transmission.
In the case of SD, as you can see from the layout, the engine can drive the transmission without the electric motor running, and the electric motor can drive the transmission without the engine running.
On IMA on the other hand, means that if engine or motor is running the transmission, the other has to be turning as well. I think Honda does this because they can save on space. The best way to describe this method is a sandwich, where the motor is between the engine and transmission in terms of mechanical output.
I prefer Toyota's system, and its no wonder why Toyota's system is the premium standard on the world right now. Each drive, whether engine or motor, does not drive the other, so you get less mechanical losses. In the Honda system, both are continually running, in the Toyota system, the engine can completely shut off while the car is moving. That might take a little while to get used to as it adds a surreal feeling to the car.
In a hybrid, to save on gas, you want the electric motor to come online as often as possible. For this, you want the electric motor to be stronger, so you have less gas motor assist. So all hybrids is not equal. The Honda Civic hybrid has a 20hp motor. The Prius has a 67hp motor. Which car do you think can leave the traffic light on the electric motor alone?
As an anecdote, the US government was shocked when the first Toyota Prius came to US shores early this decade. They had one example taken to the Argonne , National Laboratories for dissection, and the results they said, was even more shocking, and the sense of a chilling omen to the Big Three if they did not step up to compete with foreign green car technology in the long run.
I am learning more about hybrid technology as I go along. It should also be noted that the engine for the Camry Hybrid, although coming from the same family that powers all gas Camrys, Avensis and Scions, is a special one. For example, it has an effective compression ratio of 12.5 to one, using Atkinson's Cycle. It is as you said, optimized for the electric motor, and is made for high grunt at low RPM. I think that's another problem with the sporty Honda motors being adapted to hybrid use, since they are on the opposite: soft on the low RPMs, with lots of power coming on at high RPMs.
Although other gas cars, like Nissans, have CVT (continuous variable transmission), only the Toyota Hybrids have CVT for their lines, such as the only CVT you can get for a Camry is through the Camry Hybrid.
I heard rumors that Prius might end up becoming a brand name of its own, no longer Toyota Prius, but Prius as in Lexus and Scion. Then the different cars under the Prius name maybe like Prius A, Prius B, Prius C, etc,.
Underneath the name "hybrid", the approaches are still very different.
Lets say Toyota's Synergy Drive and Honda's IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). Their difference goes down to the fundamental concept.
Synergy Drive works like this.
Engine => Transmission <= Electric Motor
IMA on the other hand, works like this:
Engine => Electric Motor => Transmission.
In the case of SD, as you can see from the layout, the engine can drive the transmission without the electric motor running, and the electric motor can drive the transmission without the engine running.
On IMA on the other hand, means that if engine or motor is running the transmission, the other has to be turning as well. I think Honda does this because they can save on space. The best way to describe this method is a sandwich, where the motor is between the engine and transmission in terms of mechanical output.
I prefer Toyota's system, and its no wonder why Toyota's system is the premium standard on the world right now. Each drive, whether engine or motor, does not drive the other, so you get less mechanical losses. In the Honda system, both are continually running, in the Toyota system, the engine can completely shut off while the car is moving. That might take a little while to get used to as it adds a surreal feeling to the car.
In a hybrid, to save on gas, you want the electric motor to come online as often as possible. For this, you want the electric motor to be stronger, so you have less gas motor assist. So all hybrids is not equal. The Honda Civic hybrid has a 20hp motor. The Prius has a 67hp motor. Which car do you think can leave the traffic light on the electric motor alone?
As an anecdote, the US government was shocked when the first Toyota Prius came to US shores early this decade. They had one example taken to the Argonne , National Laboratories for dissection, and the results they said, was even more shocking, and the sense of a chilling omen to the Big Three if they did not step up to compete with foreign green car technology in the long run.
I am learning more about hybrid technology as I go along. It should also be noted that the engine for the Camry Hybrid, although coming from the same family that powers all gas Camrys, Avensis and Scions, is a special one. For example, it has an effective compression ratio of 12.5 to one, using Atkinson's Cycle. It is as you said, optimized for the electric motor, and is made for high grunt at low RPM. I think that's another problem with the sporty Honda motors being adapted to hybrid use, since they are on the opposite: soft on the low RPMs, with lots of power coming on at high RPMs.
Although other gas cars, like Nissans, have CVT (continuous variable transmission), only the Toyota Hybrids have CVT for their lines, such as the only CVT you can get for a Camry is through the Camry Hybrid.
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You should see what Mazda did to the Miata's face in accordance to the new Mazda corporate look. The "Ohh" mouth is now replaced with a "grinning" mouth like the RX-8.
The Matrix is actually the five door Corolla. In other places, it would be sold as the five door Corolla, but in the US, it gets a name of its own. The Blade is said to replace the new Corolla line. Toyota is playing name games.
The Prius sits very well, but the new Honda Fit has some of the most innovative and flexible seating arrangements you can do.
In the US, rules for cetane is tougher because sulfur in diesel ends up in the air and not only does it smells, it forms sulfuric acid when mixed with water.
A city that relies heavily on diesel vehicles with lots of cheap diesel fuel is Manila, Philippines, and the place has this diesel-sulfur smell all over the place. Sulfuric acid speeds up concrete deterioration because when touching concrete, its dissolves, leaving carbolic acid and dissolving the cement further.
I always feel that the car scene in HK is a lot more interesting than in the US because its filled with all sorts of Japanese and European cars that is not imported to the US. An example is that neat looking Nissan retro mini that looks like an Austin Mini.
The ambulances and vehicles the HK police to put people in are nothing more than M Benz G-Wagens. Grey market G Wagens in the US cost well over 100,00k. One can say, if you're arrested in HK, you can travel in style.
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30000….that’s a lot of choices, pretty anything except for high end luxury brands. (For those of you outside the US, $30000 in US terms mean any vehicles that’s not a Benz, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and so forth.)
If I could, I’d definitely buy a Camry XLE and then get a new Civic.
(Are we including tax?)
Well, for 30000, my list will include the
Rav4 V6 4WD
Jettawagen-Diesel
Malibu
GM Traverse/Outlook
Honda Accord (Given that I already had the Camry when I have the $30000)
Subaru Outback (Just enough to get the Limited)
Passat Wagon
30K is the cut off point at least in the US, between the luxury brands, (Lexus, BMW) vs. the main stream brands. I'm not really that interested with high end cars, anyone can make a good car if you put enough money on it. The true engineering challenges lie in making very good cars with not so much money.
Off the top of my head I don't think I would buy any American car other than those in my list above like the Malibu and Outlook....except for the Mondeo if I was elsewhere. I like the Taurus X but the Outlook is better. Not the racing type of guy so no Camaros, Corvettes, Sky or G8s....ok, maybe the Corvette, does give me the auto version of morning wood sometimes.
Can't think of any good econ/compacts from the big three, except for the Saturn Astra in terms of looks...
?! Dude seriously......That's the new Honda Prius? Haven't we played enough where's-my-car in the 80s? First the Altima and Maxima and this this? sigh.... Air friendly but a put off you have to say. Please don't tell me the FCX will be the next Mantou (Chinese Prius shaped steamed buns) on the road....
That new Metric Honda is nice, better looking than our TSXs.
What do you mean by Microvan? Those 5 seat wagons? Seat utility was one thing: you being able to sit there for 2 hours is another. =P
I always feel that the car scene in HK is disappointing…. Everybody are buying (Because of cost and space limitations) those eye popping box on wheels. Whatever market there is in Hong Kong, it’s nothing if you don’t see people driving them… and am not going to visit car dealers.
But seriously, those ambulances shouldn’t be breaking down like that….sad. More like traveling in a G class Hoopster. G for G_____ (Not trying to offend, but I think you know what I am getting at.)
That’s a Maserati.
That Zeo….Hmm, better throw out the current trash and start replacing models…
Can't think of any good econ/compacts from the big three, except for the Saturn Astra in terms of looks...
?! Dude seriously......That's the new Honda Prius? Haven't we played enough where's-my-car in the 80s? First the Altima and Maxima and this this? sigh.... Air friendly but a put off you have to say. Please don't tell me the FCX will be the next Mantou (Chinese Prius shaped steamed buns) on the road....
That new Metric Honda is nice, better looking than our TSXs.
What do you mean by Microvan? Those 5 seat wagons? Seat utility was one thing: you being able to sit there for 2 hours is another. =P
I always feel that the car scene in HK is disappointing…. Everybody are buying (Because of cost and space limitations) those eye popping box on wheels. Whatever market there is in Hong Kong, it’s nothing if you don’t see people driving them… and am not going to visit car dealers.
But seriously, those ambulances shouldn’t be breaking down like that….sad. More like traveling in a G class Hoopster. G for G_____ (Not trying to offend, but I think you know what I am getting at.)
That’s a Maserati.
That Zeo….Hmm, better throw out the current trash and start replacing models…
The news is that the new 2010 Toyota Prius---the third generation of this line---is set to be sold starting in April 2009. Starting price $22,600. As shown before it has a new, nice interior, albeit space ship like but with a more conventional layout, like the dashboard now in the side of the driver rather than the Echo/Yaris style in the center. The grill is now in conformance to the new Toyota corporation look, so the face has more of the kind of look you see in the Corolla/Camry/Matrix.
Not to be left behind, Honda also intends to sell its first dedicated hybrid, the Honda Insight, which kinds of looks like a Prius with a Honda badge and a Civic like grill, in the same month for slightly less.
German automobiles, for all their hype about engineering, aren't the most reliable of vehicles.
Not to be left behind, Honda also intends to sell its first dedicated hybrid, the Honda Insight, which kinds of looks like a Prius with a Honda badge and a Civic like grill, in the same month for slightly less.
German automobiles, for all their hype about engineering, aren't the most reliable of vehicles.
If you want my genuine opinion, American cars are not any more unreliable than European cars and at least tend to cost cheaper despite the UAW wages, suggesting European wage and capital structures are not as well either. And yes, I have seen major quality goof ups on Mercedes Benz and BMW cars. Its hard to believe given the awe they tend to project.