Australian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Air Force Brat said:
Yeah??? sure ya did, in fact I've just never been so comprehensively disproven,,,, well I think I did say that Americans really don't want to get involved either ace,,,, but if Aus ever gets overrun by a (fill in the blank) hoard, US will be there to help you gentle, hyper intelligent souls to pick up the pieces, and your welcome, we'll do it just because we love y'all!
Click to expand...

Clearly we both have strong feelings on this issue and we should avoid turning this into a political bloodbath. Nonetheless, I think we can agree that the study is interesting.

For Americans who are surprised at the results, I think the single most important key to understanding them is that there seems to be much less concern, fear, suspicion, resentment, etc. of a rising China here than in the US. The greatest concern Australians have about China is with regard to foreign investment, i.e. they are buying all our farms, etc. Most Australians are aware that China is our #1 trading partner and important to our economic wellbeing, and a large source of international students, but give it little more thought than that.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Lethe said:
In other words, you go further than my assertion that public wishes are discounted in foreign affairs to the idea that they should be discounted. An edifying illustration of just how committed to democracy some folks are.
Click to expand...
I have asked for some form of substantiation to your assertion. Since you have not provided any, I assume it was made without warrant.

I am not discounting anything as you are trying to frame it. I am simply stating the following facts :
(i) A specific poll has its limitation in terms of scope and objective
(ii) Geopolitical issues are complex and subject to the nature of the events driving the situation and the circumstances leading to it. It is a holistic view taking into consideration of many inter connecting factors - both internal and external relationships. It is a much more inclusive view required to drive foreign policies and not the exclusive nature of polls which fluctuate with time, sample size, and nature of events.

The problem is you are attempting to frame a certain narrative (based on the poll) around your own political views but the evidence is absent and the nexus is non existent.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Lethe said:
In other words, you go further than my assertion that public wishes are discounted in foreign affairs to the idea that they should be discounted. An edifying illustration of just how committed to democracy some folks are.



The Australian people are far more sensible -- and innocent -- than their government. Whereas the government periodically sacrifices Australian lives and treasure on the altar to the United States so that (it is hoped) one day the Americans might return the favour, the Australian people have no such concern, and are guided only by the simple realisation that we have no interest in who control various bits of rock in the South China Sea, and a compelling interest in avoiding being caught in the crossfire of a great power conflict.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
are details of the questions asked and responses, broken down by state, income, occupation, political affiliation, etc.I am proud to note that my own state (SA) is the most sensible, with 80% supporting Australian neutrality in a China vs. Japan conflict.
Click to expand...

So Lethe you are telling me, a US citizen that the Australian Govt periodically offers human sacrifice, and some other treasure, on an altar dedicated to the United States, hoping that someday, the US govt will offer some of our citizens and treasure on what---an altar dedicated to the Australian Govt,,,, so let me respond as politely and succinctly as I am able in light of these grandiose and inaccurate statements, actually lets start with that angelic pronouncement upon the Australian people--they are far more sensible--- and innocent--- than the Australian govt???

First the idea that the Australian people have no concern for the security of the Australian People, and are guided by some simplistic realization, that if they just stay out of the way, they can avoid becoming embroiled in a conflaguration, and actually all they are really worried about is not angering China, who are their most important trading partners, and prolific exporters of students to Australian institutions of higher learning.... ahhh, OK???

Second that the Australian Govt is so evil and wicked, that they sacrifice their own citizens and treasure to be loyal to the US Govt, and that someday, they hope this loyalty to the US Govt, will result in the US Govt, willingly offering US citizens and treasure on an Australian altar, to show appreciation?????

That you would make these assertions on an international military forum is as preposterous as your assertions themselves, which you and I both know are preposterous, so lets agree to get back to reality, and a more honest discussion of what the issues are??? You seem to be asserting that the Austrlian people are actually more concerned about economics, than maintaining the mutual military arrangement that makes us defense partners? right?? and I personally do not find that makes them more sensible or more innocent??? I really don't, I don't want to fight, in fact I agreed with your little study, by stating that no one wants to become embroiled in someone else's altercation,,, nothing wrong with that, we don't either??
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Jura said:
how it's going down there
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...

There is due process required but the Abbot government is keeping things on rather short leash. There are only 4 countries that can possibly meet Australia's options i.e. France, Sweden, Germany and Japan. Since a formal process is being ruled out I suspect an informal process probably already is in the works. Essentially, Australia requires a long transit platform and modification would be required from existing design. I would suspect those countries would be asked to submit preliminary proposals on design modifications and costing which would then become the input to the 2015 white paper due sometime this year. I also suspect concurrent with this, planning effort is being developed to structure any deal that would protect local ship building industrial base. The recent announcement by Japan is an early indication of the direction in this area. I think it is almost a certainty that the work (or a majority) has to be done in Australia to provide political cover from union, et al.

Since the window to make a decision is narrowing to avoid a capability gap, the decision should come quickly once the needed elements and due process are in place.
 
SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Concerning the survey, if you look back in history, I recall most Americans were reluctant in getting involved with WW1 saying it is a war in the old world and again the similar reaction before WW2 and yet Americans went to war.
If the war is confined to a skirmish for some uninhabited isles in the East China sea I do not see why Australia will want to get involved and basically Japan could defend herself if it is confined in that immediate area not asking Australia to get involved BUT history has proven again and again that it is rarely isolated and easily spread to other regions in SE China sea with Vietnam, Philippines and Taiwan wanting to obtain their share while PRC preoccupied fighting Japan.
This will lead to a complete embargo in the SE China sea with subs shooting at any ships warship or otherwise that dares enter.
Nations will also start cutting underwater communication cables in the area as well.
This will place Australia in a very difficult position, no longer having the luxury to maintain neutrality.

So this kind of poll is basically meaningless in peace time showing Australia is acting how nations that are not directly involved would naturally respond.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Lethe said:
Whereas the government periodically sacrifices Australian lives and treasure on the altar to the United States so that (it is hoped) one day the Americans might return the favour, the Australian people have no such concern, and are guided only by the simple realisation that we have no interest in who control various bits of rock in the South China Sea
Click to expand...
Sorry Lether, but IMHO, this is simply a pile of Bravo Sierra and clearly establishes your leanings.

The poll was conducted by a "group," with a clear bias headed by a former politician with the same.

As to "sacrificing lives on the alter of the Untied States," the Australian people have voted in their leaders who have made decisions based on Australia's best interests, and upon free passage, regional security, and its own desire to remain free...all of which benefit all Australian, even those too ideological or too self-absorbed to recognize it.. The US has also sacrificed lives to help free and maintain freedom around the world, including when Australia has been severely threatened in the past. Thank God most Australians have not forgotten that.

But all of that is wholly unrelated to the military news we discuss here. I suggest you read the rules and keep the politics and ideology out of it. Being able to do that will reflect on your longevity here on SD.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
There is due process required but the Abbot government is keeping things on rather short leash. There are only 4 countries that can possibly meet Australia's options i.e. France, Sweden, Germany and Japan. Since a formal process is being ruled out I suspect an informal process probably already is in the works. Essentially, Australia requires a long transit platform and modification would be required from existing design. I would suspect those countries would be asked to submit preliminary proposals on design modifications and costing which would then become the input to the 2015 white paper due sometime this year. I also suspect concurrent with this, planning effort is being developed to structure any deal that would protect local ship building industrial base. The recent announcement by Japan is an early indication of the direction in this area. I think it is almost a certainty that the work (or a majority) has to be done in Australia to provide political cover from union, et al.

Since the window to make a decision is narrowing to avoid a capability gap, the decision should come quickly once the needed elements and due process are in place.
Click to expand...

I found this:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

saying
Japan’s high-tech shipbuilding industry is thought to be well-placed to win the contract.
Click to expand...
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Wedgetail_AWAC_(©_Australian_DoD).jpg
​

Pacific Sentinel said:
Royal Australian Air Force E-7A Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft recently made history for the longest Australian command and control mission in a war zone during a combat mission over Iraq.

At 16 hours and 18 minutes, the E-7A Wedgetail’s mission entailed the command and control of large numbers of Coalition aircraft operating in Iraqi airspace as part of the multi-national air campaign confronting ISIL.

Commander of Australia’s Air Task Group, Air Commodore Steve Roberton commented on what the endurance mission meant for Australia’s air power capability.

“After already being ‘on station’ for a number of hours, the Australian Wedgetail crew was advised the Coalition aircraft due to relieve them was delayed,” Air Commodore Roberton said.

In response, the Wedgetail crew quickly assessed their ability to coordinate additional air-to-air refuelling and agreed to substantially extend their mission.

“Try to imagine coordinating a short-notice, mid-air refuel for a Boeing 737 in the middle of a combat zone. It is no small task,” he said.
Air Commodore Roberton noted Australia’s ability to ‘go above and beyond’ is a clear demonstration of the nation’s important contribution to the Coalition air campaign.

The E-7A Wedgetail crew completed two air-to-air refuels during this mission, allowing it to stay airborne and make the historic time.
The crew first deployed to the Middle East in September 2014 and were regularly undertaking lengthy missions of approximately 13 hours. Including planning and debriefing, the extension to over 16 hours airborne resulted in the aircrew working toward their duty limits.
“The Australian crew’s responsiveness and flexibility made up for a shortfall that night” Air Commodore Roberton said.

Commander of the E-7A Wedgetail Task Element Wing Commander Christian Martin echoed this praise but acknowledged there were also many in Australia who shared in this achievement.

“The performance and reliability of the aircraft are a direct result of the dedication of a joint ‘Wedgetail team’ comprising our Wing Headquarters back home, the Airborne Early Warning and Control Special Projects Office and Boeing Defence Australia,” Wing Commander Martin said.

Wing Commander Martin believes the E-7A Wedgetail has developed into a world class command and control platform and is the envy of many nations.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top