Australian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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sndef888

Captain
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@sndef888 bro copy but my question still remain can they afford it? maybe six for the next 15 years? with the first boat entering service in 2030? maybe at the early date 2028 if they purchase it directly from the US? bro its a given the 5eyes plus Japan is a bloc its concerning YES but by that time the Chinese will be producing type 9V in quantity combined with conventional Sub.
I have no idea. The US spent $3 billion per virginia while Australia's budget for french subs was originally 90b so they could presumably get quite a few if the US builds it, probably a lot less if they build it themselves.

However it will add up very quickly if they ever someday deepen their pact and go to war together. 6 from Aus and 6 from UK is like twice of what China has today, and a significant 20% boost of what the US has.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have no idea. The US spent $3 billion per virginia while Australia's budget for french subs was originally 90b so they could presumably get quite a few if the US builds it, probably a lot less if they build it themselves.

However it will add up very quickly if they ever someday deepen their pact and go to war together. 6 from Aus and 6 from UK is like twice of what China has today, and a significant 20% boost of what the US has.
I dont think China cares too much about how many nuclear powered submarines its opponents have. Its primary mission for now is near seas combat.

Nuclear is for long seas deployment which for China is not a priority right now
 

Lethe

Captain
Nuclear submarines for Australia are an extraordinarily expensive means of further subordinating the nation to foreign powers.

It is unfortunate that Australia is so determined to make itself an adversary of Beijing, but if we are to be adversaries, one expects that Beijing is grateful that our defence acquisition apparatus is so incompetent, able to dispose of vast sums of money while acquiring very little in the way of relevant warfighting capabilities.
 

weig2000

Captain
Nuclear submarines for Australia are an extraordinarily expensive means of further subordinating the nation to foreign powers.

It is unfortunate that Australia is so determined to make itself an adversary of Beijing, but if we are to be adversaries, one expects that Beijing is grateful that our defence acquisition apparatus is so incompetent, able to dispose of vast sums of money while acquiring very little in the way of relevant warfighting capabilities.

That has become Washington's default strategy to acquire "allies," that is, instigate troubles around the targeted client state, create security dependency with sales of armament and security alliance. This kind of security embrace inevitably triggers backlash from the presumed adversary, and the cycle repeats. It's proven to be extremely difficult to get out of the embrace.

Of course, it's not all Washington's fault, the client state usually has its own faults and weakness.

India has been staying neural and non-aligned for decades, but has now gradually embedded into QUAD and Washington's security trap. It actually hasn't benefited much from this tilt so far and I doubted it'll improve its strategic plight in its neighborhood. If anything, it's getting worse. It could have stayed neural and leveraged that position to reap benefits. In contrast, Vietnam has done a marvelous job to keep equidistance between the US and China. The results have shown.

Two rather peculiar examples are Australia and Lithuania.

Lithuania is a tiny country with less than 3 million population, tens of thousands of miles away from China, and doesn't even have much trade with China. Yet it is challenging China on her most sensitive issue and core interest: Taiwan. And its foreign minister is visiting Washington now to "build an alliance against China."

What Lithuania has done is laughable, but it at least has some logic behind it. Maybe using China as a strawman enemy to curry favor with Washington. Since it is so far from China and doesn't have much connections with China. It figures that it wouldn't get hurt or lose much.

Australia, on the other hand, has become a benchmark of stupidity within some circle. It's benefited so enormously from China's growth and trade. It hasn't had experienced a recession over a quarter century largely because of China before the pandemic. All it does is to sell mostly dirt, that is, it doesn't even have to worry about selling or transferring technologies to the Chinese, unlike, say, the US or Germany. Not that Australia has much technology to sell to begin with. Besides, Australia is so far from China, there is no territorial disputes, no security threat, no historical animosity. In short, it's hard to think of another country that has benefited so much, so one-sided, so cleanly from the rise of China.

Yet Australia has successfully turned China into its public enemy #1. In return, Australia has probably gained the status of China's enemy in the long haul and there will probably be blowbacks in the years ahead. And now, Australia has started to feel some real security threat, such that it is on track to spend heavily on expensive imported toys and throw itself ever more tightly into Washington's security embrace.

It doesn't have to be that way, but it's getting harder to get out of that trap with every step it's taken.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
@Skywatcher Sir when delivered its obsolete visa vie the type 9V? I'm not a submarine expert, but having a large numbers of conventional sub is better than a few expensive SSN which is maintenance heavy? Especially for a continent size country like Australia?
I'm thinking about the proliferation and evolution in unmanned surface and subsurface vessels aimed at ASW in the 2040-50.

As the Barracuda variant would have a lifetime cost of $80, the RAN SSN will probably cost $200+ billion (that's going to eat up entire Australian defense budget for decades, and by the 2040-50 timeframe, when it finally starts entering IOC, SSNs are likely going to be obsolete for SCS contingencies thanks to unmanned ASW)
 

escobar

Brigadier
Nuclear submarines for Australia are an extraordinarily expensive means of further subordinating the nation to foreign powers.

It is unfortunate that Australia is so determined to make itself an adversary of Beijing, but if we are to be adversaries, one expects that Beijing is grateful that our defence acquisition apparatus is so incompetent, able to dispose of vast sums of money while acquiring very little in the way of relevant warfighting capabilities.
US strategy rather simple: shoring up allied autonomous defense capabilities to ease burdens on US forces, just see SK. We are going to see a breathtaking number of missiles in the Indo-Pacific in this decade.
A more capable AU Navy is "a problem for the PRC", no matter how we put it. The idea is not for AU to be capable to take on China on a one vs one fight but to defend its interests in peacetime and during a war in which it would not be involved directly, and to be a credible coalition if that was needed at some point.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Its good for the world that Australia has finally revealed its status.

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“This is a fundamental decision – it binds decisively Australia to the United States and Great Britain for generations,” a senior Biden administration official said in a briefing call. “It is the biggest strategic step Australia has taken in generations.”
I would have expected Australia to demand more for selling out to the US. Anyway, interesting times.

It would be interesting to see the budget for these submarines and the reaction by France for having its huge sub contract getting cancelled.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
Logical move by Australia to go SSN and ditch the overpriced SSKs. France is getting 6 SSNs for 10.5 billion dollars, but Australia was to pay 6 times as much for 12 conventional powered ones !?

They had already decided upon US made combat systems, and now that the US is willing to share its nuclear propulsion technology the French offer must've become even more unpalatable.

USNI take:
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