Australian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Thank you, Jura.

My dream team Navy for the Aussies would be:

02 x Canberra LHDs each with a squadron of eight F-35Bs
04 x Hobart AEGIS destroyers
04 x Adelaide FFGs (to be replaced by four future frigates)
08 x Anzac FFGs (to be replaced by eight future frigates)
06 x Collins SSK (To be replaced by eight Advanced Soryu design derivative AIP SSKs)
06 x Future Heavy Landing Craft (Modern LSM Type)
14 x Armidale class patrol boats
08 x Huon Class MCM vessels
02 x Sirius AOR
01 x Ocean Shield ADV

That's a total future inventory of 57 vessels.

So, SouthernSky, Brumby, and others...what do you think of that? Thjs old Ami is thinking good thoughts about the Australian Navy!

I have read at the beginning Adelaide FFG were retained in addition of Hobart and now seems otherwise.

Many announcement for 12 new Sub's but really i don't think RAN had a sufficient number of submariners, now get 4 crew for 6 Collins ! in general 1 deployed sometimes 2, normaly with 6 this should be 3/4.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
My dream team Navy for the Aussies would be:

02 x Canberra LHDs each with a squadron of eight F-35Bs
04 x Hobart AEGIS destroyers
04 x Adelaide FFGs (to be replaced by four future frigates)
08 x Anzac FFGs (to be replaced by eight future frigates)
06 x Collins SSK (To be replaced by eight Advanced Soryu design derivative AIP SSKs)
06 x Future Heavy Landing Craft (Modern LSM Type)
14 x Armidale class patrol boats
08 x Huon Class MCM vessels
02 x Sirius AOR
01 x Ocean Shield ADV

That's a total future inventory of 57 vessels.

So, SouthernSky, Brumby, and others...what do you think of that? Thjs old Ami is thinking good thoughts about the Australian Navy!

I'm sorry Jeff, as a general rule I don't involve myself in these types of discussions.

I will however say this. As much as I would like to see a fixed wing capability restored to the RAN, I don't want to see it happen at the expense of the purpose the Canberra's were purchased for which is amphibious assault. If we were to go down the path of a light fleet carrier then something like CVL Cavour would be my preferred option.

ADV Ocean Shield will decommissioned from the RAN and transferred to Customs and Border Protection once the Canberra's are commissioned.
 

Brumby

Major
Thank you, Jura.

My dream team Navy for the Aussies would be:

02 x Canberra LHDs each with a squadron of eight F-35Bs
04 x Hobart AEGIS destroyers
04 x Adelaide FFGs (to be replaced by four future frigates)
08 x Anzac FFGs (to be replaced by eight future frigates)
06 x Collins SSK (To be replaced by eight Advanced Soryu design derivative AIP SSKs)
06 x Future Heavy Landing Craft (Modern LSM Type)
14 x Armidale class patrol boats
08 x Huon Class MCM vessels
02 x Sirius AOR
01 x Ocean Shield ADV

That's a total future inventory of 57 vessels.

So, SouthernSky, Brumby, and others...what do you think of that? Thjs old Ami is thinking good thoughts about the Australian Navy!

I think there are two main drivers that would determine Australia's force structure and accordingly its composition. Budget constraint will always be present and so it will come down to a question of priorities in allocation. This will be dependent on whether Labor or the Liberals are in government. If you are not familiar with the Australian political landscape, Liberals are akin to Rebublicans and Labor is to the Democrats in terms of policy preference. Secondly, the main unknown is China and its assertiveness in the future. The Australian military will have to determine what type of military posture to adopt depending on its assessment of China's intention in the future and to what extent that it should or will collaborate with the US in meeting future challenges.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
As much as I would like to see a fixed wing capability restored to the RAN, I don't want to see it happen at the expense of the purpose the Canberra's were purchased for which is amphibious assault. If we were to go down the path of a light fleet carrier then something like CVL Cavour would be my preferred option.
The US Marines have shown that Amphibious assault, accompanied by a squadron of fixed wing aircraft, is substantially enhanced.

The US Wasp class vessels are not in the least negatively impacted because they carrier Harriers (and later JSFs). The Harriers...and later F-35Bs...are used to support the landings. This would also be the case with the Canberras.

In addition, it would give the Australians the flexibility, as desired or needed, to use the Canberras in a Sea Control role as well.

That does not negate or supplant the primary purpose...it compliments it.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I think there are two main drivers that would determine Australia's force structure and accordingly its composition. Budget constraint will always be present and so it will come down to a question of priorities in allocation. This will be dependent on whether Labor or the Liberals are in government. If you are not familiar with the Australian political landscape, Liberals are akin to Rebublicans and Labor is to the Democrats in terms of policy preference. Secondly, the main unknown is China and its assertiveness in the future. The Australian military will have to determine what type of military posture to adopt depending on its assessment of China's intention in the future and to what extent that it should or will collaborate with the US in meeting future challenges.
I agree 100%, it will depend on the circumstances, and either of those...Australia's internal politics and the impact of China's growth, will probably impact the other.

I believe that Australia (and I believe the same is true of Japan) are acquiring aviation capable vessels and hedging their bets. If future events create a threat environment where they need them, then they already have major combatant vessels in place that can relatively straight forwardly take the fixed wing component.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
The US Marines have shown that Amphibious assault, accompanied by a squadron of fixed wing aircraft, is substantially enhanced.

The US Wasp class vessels are not in the least negatively impacted because they carrier Harriers (and later JSFs). The Harriers...and later F-35Bs...are used to support the landings. This would also be the case with the Canberras.

In addition, it would give the Australians the flexibility, as desired or needed, to use the Canberras in a Sea Control role as well.

That does not negate or supplant the primary purpose...it compliments it.

All valid points Jeff. The Wasps are significantly larger than the Canberra's though and can accommodate a fixed wing capability without impacting on amphibious operations much better than something the size of our LHD's.

The rumblings we are now hearing from our federal government would suggest that they want something more than an LHD with fixed wing capability to support amphibious operations. I guess that is more the point I was trying to make.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
A little hint in here as to the direction any collaboration between Japan and Australia may take on the RAN's future submarine requirements.

" Japan builds a big but extremely quiet submarine and Australia is particularly interested in its very effective propulsion system and the rest of its “drive train” which takes in everything from the electric and diesel engines and its batteries to the propeller. "

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Copy and paste below into google for full article.

defence-minister-invited-to-tour-state-of-the-art-japanese-submarine
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
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AU-1_2.jpg


F35.com said:
Images of the RAAF’s first Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II being towed from the production line to the paint facility have been revealed.

The aircraft, dubbed AU-1 and appearing in primer colours, is due to be officially rolled out in July and delivered to the USAF’s Integrated Training Center at Luke AFB in Arizona later this year.

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SouthernSky

Junior Member
APDR

Cover Story: Jump jets on navy's agenda as Tony Abbott orders air strike rethink

Prime Minister Tony Abbott's order to examine turning the navy's amphibious assault ships

4th Jun 2014

Jump jets on navy's agenda as Tony Abbott orders air strike rethink


Prime Minister Tony Abbott's order to examine turning the navy's amphibious assault ships into aircraft carriers for jump jets will require a major rethink by Defence, top military brass have indicated.
Facing a Senate hearing on Monday, Defence chiefs said little work had so far been done on the possibility of buying a short take-off and vertical landing variant of the Joint Strike Fighter - an idea that has seized the interest of the Prime Minister.


Under questioning by Labor defence spokesman Stephen Conroy, defence chiefs confirmed for the first time that Mr Abbott had asked them to look at the merit of buying the F-35B jump jets under the forthcoming Defence White Paper and accompanying Force Structure Review.


Under the proposal, they would be flown from the navy's two Landing Helicopter Dock amphibious assault ships, which are due to come into service over the next 12 to 18 months.
Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Geoff Brown said the force had not asked for the F-35B but added the idea should be examined along with all other credible options.
"Like all things when you have a new White Paper, you should always examine all sorts of options ... It wasn't something the air force has particularly pushed," he said.
He said significant changes would be needed for the LHD ships to accommodate up to 12 of the fighters.


"One of the big issues with having fixed-wing aeroplanes come back onto a ship is you've actually got to get them back in poor weather, so there would be new radars required on the ship as well as instrument landing systems, so there'd be some extensive modifications around that."
Chief of Navy, Vice-Admiral Ray Griggs, said further modifications to the ship would include making the deck heat resistant, and changes to fuel storage and fuel lines, weapons magazines and classified compartments for storage.


"This has been a fairly superficial examination up until now because there hasn't been a serious consideration of this capability going into the ship."
Chief of the Defence Force, General David Hurley, said it was too early even to say how the F-35B would fit into the Australian Defence Force.
Much work was needed to decide even how useful they would be, how much they would cost and what sacrifices would be needed to buy them.
"I think we're in a situation where a new government has come in, there's a White Paper been evolving for a while ... The Prime Minister has ... a view about a capability he ... thinks might be relevant to the ADF. He's asked us to look at that.


"We have a process in place at the moment that will allow us to have a look at that and depending on where we come out on that process, we would then go into all those technical decisions about nature of ship and force structure implications for the ADF."

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A little further on earlier discussions on this topic.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Look as if the two nations had finally sealed a deal.

Military Noose Tightens Around China

Japan has significantly boosted its military ties with Australia in the face of intensifying tensions in the disputed South China Sea China claims to own.

Australia and Japan yesterday came a deal to share their military technologies. This agreement includes a joint research on marine hydrodynamics, or submarine technology that could see Australia either acquire advanced submarine designs from Japan or buy Japanese submarines outright.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defense Minister David Johnston visiting in Tokyo confirmed with their Japanese counterparts a substantial conclusion of talks about closer defense ties and technology sharing between both countries.....For more
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