Aussies

bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The RAN needs two of these LHD ships. Austraila is a country completly surrounded by water. They need two LHD's FAC's and patrol Frigates to protect their shore line.....

The RAAF hates the naval air arm with a passion and is probally against any LHD type ship. So how many F-35 JSF's will they allow the RAN to fly?
 
B

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
bd popeye said:
The RAN needs two of these LHD ships. Australia is a country completly surrounded by water. They need two LHD's FAC's and patrol Frigates to protect their shore line.....
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It's a big island all right, but there are only 80 miles across the strait to Indonesia! But,
Australia, with 19,650 kilometres of coastline does not have a force purely to defend its coast.
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Acting as a US Deputy Sherriff in the South Pacific & Indonesian Archipelago is one thing, but China & SE Asia are entirely different. When it comes to its relations with the PRC, I wouldn't be sure that Australia will always (if ever from now on) toe the American line. With negative population growth, the nation will have to admit more immigrants, mainly from Asia, to remain economicaly viable. will Australia become a new Asian melting pot? Probably. And as their numbers grow, they will have more impact on their new country foreign policy and military posture as well. Compare its current population with that of China, Indonesia & India:
20,264,082 (July 2006 est.)
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Birth rate: 12.14 births/1,000 population (2006 est.)
Death rate: 7.51 deaths/1,000 population (2006 est.)...
Australia's emphasis on reforms, low inflation, and growing ties with China are other key factors behind the economy's strength.
East Timor and Australia agreed in 2005 to defer the disputed portion of the boundary for fifty years and to split hydrocarbon revenues evenly outside the Joint Petroleum Development Area covered by the 2002 Timor Sea Treaty; East Timor dispute hampers creation of a revised maritime boundary with Indonesia (see also Ashmore and Cartier Islands dispute); regional states express concern over Australia's 2004 declaration of a 1,000-nautical mile-wide maritime identification zone; Australia asserts land and maritime claims to Antarctica (see Antarctica); in 2004 Australia submitted its claims to UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf (CLCS) to extend its continental margin from both its mainland and Antarctic claims
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Population: 1,313,973,713 (July 2006 est.)
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Population: 245,452,739 (July 2006 est.)
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Population: 1,095,351,995 (July 2006 est.)
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China's No. 2 leader concluded an Australian visit Tuesday, meeting with Prime Minister John Howard and declaring that relations between the two countries were better than ever.
Wu Bangguo, the chairman of China's National People's Congress, said he had a candid conversation with Howard and that the two leaders had ``reached broad consensus on bilateral relations, (the) international situation and other major issues of a shared interest.''
``China-Australia relations are at their best shape in our history,'' Wu said through an interpreter at a dinner held in his honor at Parliament House.
Wu flies to New Zealand Wednesday after the six-day visit to Australia, which focused on gas and iron ore export infrastructure.
Australia will begin delivering liquid natural gas to China's Guangdong province next year as part of a 25 billion Australian dollar (US$19 billion; euro15 billion) supply contract _ Australia's largest-ever export deal.
Wu's visit to Sydney on Monday coincided with the beginning of negotiations on a free trade agreement between the two countries.
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Foreign Minister Downer has indicated that the ANZUS treaty wouldn't automatically cause Australia to join the US in a future military defence of Taiwan. ... PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: Well, I certainly think, as Dan said, I think there has been a lot of interest in Washington at the way in which the Australian Government has handled relations with China over the last couple of years and particularly the last few months. And some quite significant moves like Mr Downer's really quite radical restatement of the way we see our obligations to the US under ANZUS and the - in the event of a US-China conflict over Taiwan. And also some of the language John Howard's been using in which he tends to depict Australia as a kind of an honest broker between the US and China on issues on which they might differ, which is hardly the view that the United States would expect of a close ally. I think this has caused a lot of interest in the US about where Australia is going and is asking the question: have we, in order to develop a trade and economic relationship, which everyone agrees is very important, gone too far in terms of - so to speak - cosying up to China or maybe even sort of appeasing China?
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The Australian and Chinese economies are strongly complementary. .. Most recently, during the visit by Premier Wen Jiabao to Australia in April 2006, Australia and China signed a Nuclear Transfer Agreement and a Nuclear Cooperation Agreement which will allow for the supply of Australian uranium to China 's nuclear power program, and cooperation in peaceful uses of nuclear technology.
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silverster

New Member
To us aussies, there are two threats in the region: Indonesia

and, in line with to USA Policies: China.

China is no threat to Australia, however, if there are conflict between USA and China over areas say... TW, then we would be involved no doubt.

The ADF budget 2007 just came out a month ago.

Basicially, we are building up our fleet of ANZAC FFG and preparing for the Air-defence DDG to replace the Perry Class FFG.

Airforce wise, we are just buying up new choppers and keeping out f-18's going for another dew years till F-35 comes along. an of course.. Buying up AWACS out of 737s

Army wise, we are getting a bunch of used M1A1's (IMO, worst decision in the history of ADF, along with the single Collin Class Sub).
 
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wdl1976

New Member
I don't think Australian Army can be a regional power, it may be in the pacific compared to nations such as Tonga, New Guinea, Fiji etc (you get my point) and it tries to be a regional authority. But even amongst these nations it cannot assert its authority.

Overall army wise it is weak and average at best. To be able to defend itself without the American, it would not survived.

As an example the closest threat from up north (Indonesia) population of more than 10 X of the Australian. Given an ability to do a descent amphibious attack and protect the landing, Australia will not survive.

Most will argue Australians are better equiped and more technological advance. In some sense it maybe true. But if you come closer you will find out that its armed force is rifed with problems and inefficient.

Namely money blown out on projects (failed projects) the Collin class submarine, Sea sprite helicopters old F111 fleet (even the F 18s are considered almost obsolete). Internal problems within the Navy and army in regards to violence, racism and sex harrassment.

Its major independent operation so far has been east timor and it suffered by lack of funds, man power and Timor is still a mess.

So I think the Australian has a long way to go to become a power in the region.
 
A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Australia, like Singapore, is a regional powerhouse not because the nation itself is powerful, but because it has weaker neighbors. For Singapore it's Malaysia and Indonesia. For Australia it's Indonesia, Micronesia, etc.

If Australia was situated next-door to China or Japan, it'd be considered a minor power with small population and smaller economy.

For now Australia is dependent on the US for security needs, because US is the only country that can provide it. Prior to WW2, it'd have been the British Empire, but that's long gone.

Australia may come in conflict with the PRC in support of US over Taiwan. Other than that I don't see the PRC actually starting a conflict with Australia. The 2 countries have no over-lapping territorial claims and have Indonesia inbetween as a giant buffer-state. Also, the PRC is dependent on Australia for its future uranium needs, and Australia recongize the fact that you either let China go nuclear, or compete for ever more scarce petro.
 
Finn McCool

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
adeptitus said:
Australia may come in conflict with the PRC in support of US over Taiwan.
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That would be interesting. The PLAN would have to face the USN coming from the East, right down the middle of the Pacific Ocean, while the RAN pressed the attack by transiting through Indonesia and into the South China Sea. In that situation it might be a good idea for the PLAN to focus its resources on attacking the RAN forces coming north-it doesn't have much of a chance to defeat a major USN foce anyway, but it could definately take out a large RAN force. That would be a major propaganda and political victory, but it would probably be a strategic mistake.
 
B

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
adeptitus said:
Also, the PRC is dependent on Australia for its future uranium needs, and Australia recongize the fact that you either let China go nuclear, or compete for ever more scarce petro.
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Supplying uranium to China opens a new era in Australia-China relations, but it also inaugurates a new race between India and China in the field of nuclear technology and nuclear energy. Such sales also have the potential to aggravate the already complex issues related to the nuclear proliferation as has recently been witnessed in North Korea and Iran. If international regulatory regimes are not effective and China uses Australian uranium to build weapons and make them available to her "friends" and "allies" in the region, as it has done in the past, this week's agreement will have major consequences for world politics.
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China may switch to Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia & Iran for uranium, if need be.
Russia wants to double uranium production from the current 2200-2500 tonnes to 4000-4500 tonnes by 2010. The production increase were mainly needed to meet increasing domestic demand, but export also would continue, according to the Russian Chemical Technology Institute. (AFP Nov. 28, 2000). ..
Kazakhstan is planning to increase its annual uranium production from the current 3000 t to 12,000 t in 2015, according to Minister of Energy and Mineral Resources Vladimir Shkolnik. For this purpose, new uranium mines are to be opened in the Zarechnoye, Moikuduk, Zhalpak and Budennovskoye uranium fields and concentration plants to be built at the Tsentralnoye, Stepnoye and Shestoye mines. (Kazakhstan today April 5, Interfax April 6, 2004). ..
"Mining has commenced at the Dornod uranium mine in Mongolia. The first heap leach pad has been constructed, additional mining equipment is being procured and the leach plant is being fabricated. Plans are progressing for the reopening of the underground mine. Production of yellowcake is projected for mid-1998, initially at an annualized rate of 800,000 pounds of U3O8 per year, rising to at least 2.6 million pounds of U3O8 per year when the underground is in full operation in 1999-2000." (World Wide Minerals, Jan. 7, 1998). ..
"World Wide Minerals Ltd. announced today that, pending the resolution of the Kazakhstan Government's obligations to WWS and a general strengthening of uranium prices, the Management Committee of Central Asian Uranium Company, Ltd. ("CAUC") has decided to place the Dornod Uranium Project on standby." (World Wide Minerals, Aug. 7, 1998). ..
The uranium production figure planned for 2015 meanwhile was raised to 15956 t. (Kazakhstan today July 7, 2004) Iran's nuclear chief Gholamreza Aghazadeh said on May 3, 2006, studies show there are considerable amounts of uranium ore at Bandar Abbas, mineable in open pits. According to first estimates, an annual production of 30 t of U3O8 seems to be possible, at lower mining cost than at Saghand. (AFP May 3, 2006)
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The most obvious objection to a broader export policy is a security one: how to ensure that China - and possibly India, further down the track - do not divert their shipments for military use, which could draw Canberra into tensions over Taiwan and Kashmir.
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I don't forsee an all-out confrontation between China & Australia, unless the latter take proactive side of Taiwan, Japan, USA or India in any conflict those countires may have with the PRC. On the other hand, Australia may play a support role hosting US ships & aircraft- that's probably why they are
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wdl1976

New Member
Honestly, I don't think Australia can afford a bad relationship with China.
Currently economy is booming on the western region of Australia due to mining industries (metal and energy) guess who is the buyer?

Eastward of Australia is starting to go into mild depression due to increasing interest rate.

Overall Australian current economy is highly dependent on exports to China.

It would be extremely interesting to see which side Australia would lean to in an eastern asia crisis
 
C

Cryptic

New Member
I dont see how the Australians can afford their new naval,air and army military equipment on such a small tax base. Perhaps the USA is subsidizing the purchases?
 
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