AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Interesting video This Australian are naïve if they believe they can antagonize China without paying price. As Victor Gao said by joining Aukus and buying nuclear sub the Oz has crossed the rubicon line and now earned itself to be in cross hair of China nuclear force at minute 5:45
Exactly what we all saying that poking china like armed itself with nuclear weapon has consequence

 
E

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Interesting video This Australian are naïve if they believe they can antagonize China without paying price. As Victor Gao said by joining Aukus and buying nuclear sub the Oz has crossed the rubicon line and now earned itself to be in cross hair of China nuclear force at minute 5:45
Exactly what we all saying that poking china like armed itself with nuclear weapon has consequence

Click to expand...
A lot of the comments are quite dismissive and arrogant towards China thinking that they have the advantage against China, I supposed the only way to prove these people wrong is to demonstrate the end result of all the stupid antagonizing. Its Australia's first and last move and then China with its years of history in war that will decide how everything will end. The west comforts itself on China's lack of on paper victories according to the west with two very major omissions, compared to all the empires of long gone and past, China's is the only nation that is still going strong and will not stop and also, China is the only nation in the world to ever drive the USA back twice ON THERE OWN when the USA had all the advantages available like technology and multiple allies and the third time this happens, inevitable it may seem, China will be fighting alongside other nations that have also had enough of this crap from the west and also the fact that Russia has been definitively drive into the arms of China, which is going to change everything
 
J

jvodan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Interesting video This Australian are naïve if they believe they can antagonize China without paying price. As Victor Gao said by joining Aukus and buying nuclear sub the Oz has crossed the rubicon line and now earned itself to be in cross hair of China nuclear force at minute 5:45
Exactly what we all saying that poking china like armed itself with nuclear weapon has consequence

Click to expand...

There is a huge domestic political strategy in the AUKUS nuclear subs deal.

It might seem strange to upset Australia's biggest trading in this play but winning elections at all cost is the nature of Australian politics

The current group in power are the right side of politics and the nuclear subs puts the left (labor) in a bit of a dilemma
If the Left reject the idea of the nuclear subs then they will lose the centre swing voters and alienate some of their nationalistic lefty supporters.
If the Left support the nuclear subs then their left wing voters will desert them and vote for the greens.

So announcing the plan to plan to design nuclear subs is more about winning the election next year than battling with china in 30 years time which is atleast how long it will take to build the subs locally as planned.

To this end the right wing media have been ramping up propaganda about the threatening panda to the north .

An retired heavy weight left wing ex prime minister came out of obscurity recently to denounce this bs
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
jvodan said:
There is a huge domestic political strategy in the AUKUS nuclear subs deal.

It might seem strange to upset Australia's biggest trading in this play but winning elections at all cost is the nature of Australian politics

The current group in power are the right side of politics and the nuclear subs puts the left (labor) in a bit of a dilemma
If the Left reject the idea of the nuclear subs then they will lose the centre swing voters and alienate some of their nationalistic lefty supporters.
If the Left support the nuclear subs then their left wing voters will desert them and vote for the greens.

So announcing the plan to plan to design nuclear subs is more about winning the election next year than battling with china in 30 years time which is atleast how long it will take to build the subs locally as planned.

To this end the right wing media have been ramping up propaganda about the threatening panda to the north .

An retired heavy weight left wing ex prime minister came out of obscurity recently to denounce this bs
Click to expand...

With respect, I think this is back to front. Partisan politics have absolutely entered the fray in recent weeks, with an election in the offing and various figures agitating to define or refine both the positions of their parties and their own personal brands. But I do not believe or accept that AUKUS itself is the product of purely partisan domestic political calculation. In my previous posts in this thread I have outlined some of the basic ideological differences underlying recent developments, such as the conception of Australia as a European outpost "in" Asia, or alternatively an integral part "of" Asia. Or differences in how we evaluate America and its hegemony, and how we evaluate China, the CCP, and the prospect of Chinese hegemony.

While it may be uncomfortable to hear folks like Dutton making ignorant and altogether ridiculous statements about e.g. China and Taiwan, it is assuredly a good thing that this debate has entered the political arena. Because the alternative is to have no debate and no possibility of substantive evolution in Australia's foreign affairs. Dutton has accused Penny Wong and the Labor party of "crab-walking" away from AUKUS. Whatever one may think of this charge, it undoubtedly suggests that Dutton sees real differences between his dreams, and what a hypothetical Labor government might deliver.

P.S. Penny Wong is the current Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs. If Labor were to win the next election, she is most likely to become Minister for Foreign Affairs. As one of the few senior figures in Australian politics with Asian ancestry, folks here may be interested to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Her recent speech which occasioned so much vitriol from Peter Dutton for criticising his comments re: Taiwan can be found
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
Lethe said:
With respect, I think this is back to front. Partisan politics have absolutely entered the fray in recent weeks, with an election in the offing and various figures agitating to define or refine both the positions of their parties and their own personal brands. But I do not believe or accept that AUKUS itself is the product of purely partisan domestic political calculation. In my previous posts in this thread I have outlined some of the basic ideological differences underlying recent developments, such as the conception of Australia as a European outpost "in" Asia, or alternatively an integral part "of" Asia. Or differences in how we evaluate America and its hegemony, and how we evaluate China, the CCP, and the prospect of Chinese hegemony.

While it may be uncomfortable to hear folks like Dutton making ignorant and altogether ridiculous statements about e.g. China and Taiwan, it is assuredly a good thing that this debate has entered the political arena. Because the alternative is to have no debate and no possibility of substantive evolution in Australia's foreign affairs. Dutton has accused Penny Wong and the Labor party of "crab-walking" away from AUKUS. Whatever one may think of this charge, it undoubtedly suggests that Dutton sees real differences between his dreams, and what a hypothetical Labor government might deliver.

P.S. Penny Wong is the current Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs. If Labor were to win the next election, she is most likely to become Minister for Foreign Affairs. As one of the few senior figures in Australian politics with Asian ancestry, folks here may be interested to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Her recent speech which occasioned so much vitriol from Peter Dutton for criticising his comments re: Taiwan can be found
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
Click to expand...

In short, identity crisis.

Australia is not alone; this is what's going on in much of the western world now. The prospect of a western culture or white men dominated society being threatened by multiculturalism and immigrants internally; the future of the world dominated by western nations in the last few hundred years being replaced by a multi-polar one internationally. These are existential crisis. This is the only plausible reason to explain the extreme insanity and irrationality demonstrated by much of the western societies these days, often manifested differently in different western countries. It's much more than some local elections, or trade and economics, even beyond the conventional national security.
 
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