Attempt of smuggling parts of J-11/Su-30 from russia to china via finland

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Gollevainen

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As said in the article, finnish custom has seized shipments of suspicious aviation parts headed for Serbia and China. The english version doesen't mention much about the china relations, but the Finnish version spesificly mentioned navigation and radarsystems of Sukhoi fighters. Now as from the two mentioned countryes, Only china uses sukhois planes, it's fair enough to suspect that the parts where mented for J-11 or Su-30MKK.

The question is, why does those parts need to be smuggeld? Only thing that i've come up, is that China have decided to go diffrent way of aquiring those parts than the official trade. Is this becouse of lower unitprize or that the russian side is denying the official sale? Weren't there a rumours that the J-11 licence production have suffered of apcent/the unableness of produce domestically of some parts of the orginal Su-27?


Customs Uncovers Military Equipment Smuggling
Published 30.05.2006, 20.25 (updated 30.05.2006, 20.25)



The Finnish Customs Service has uncovered a number of attempts to smuggle Russian military equipment across the country's southeast border.



Over less than the past year, attempts have been seen to smuggle materials including jet fighter parts intended for shipment to Serbia-Montenegro and China. According to prosecutors, the incidents have been part of an organized effort.

Customs stopped the first suspicious shipment at the Nuijamaa border crossing point last August when it turned out that the contents did not match the accompanying documentation. What was listed as equipment for an aviation club in Serbia-Montenegro were in fact helmets for MIG fighter pilots.

Not collectors

Since then, customs has caught several more shipments, some which contained equipment and parts not yet identified, but which are suspected to have military applications. Officials turned the parts over to the Ministry of Defence and are still awaiting a report.

Licenses are required for the import and export of goods with both military and civilian uses. Such goods have been smuggle across the border before, but most often by collectors, such as in a case earlier this week when six Finnish men were arrested on the Russian side of the Niirala border crossing for trying to smuggle WW II munitions to Finland.

Now, the first evidence has been gathering that shows attempts are being made to use Finland for the illegal transit of modern military equipment.

The first court case so far brought a fine for a Russian man resident in Finland. In two other cases, charges against Russian transport drivers were dropped because there was not enough evidence that they themselves were directly involved in illegal activities.

YLE TV News
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Gollevainen said:
As said in the article, finnish custom has seized shipments of suspicious aviation parts headed for Serbia and China. The english version doesen't mention much about the china relations, but the Finnish version spesificly mentioned navigation and radarsystems of Sukhoi fighters. Now as from the two mentioned countryes, Only china uses sukhois planes, it's fair enough to suspect that the parts where mented for J-11 or Su-30MKK.

The question is, why does those parts need to be smuggeld? Only thing that i've come up, is that China have decided to go diffrent way of aquiring those parts than the official trade. Is this becouse of lower unitprize or that the russian side is denying the official sale? Weren't there a rumours that the J-11 licence production have suffered of apcent/the unableness of produce domestically of some parts of the orginal Su-27?


Customs Uncovers Military Equipment Smuggling
Published 30.05.2006, 20.25 (updated 30.05.2006, 20.25)



The Finnish Customs Service has uncovered a number of attempts to smuggle Russian military equipment across the country's southeast border.



Over less than the past year, attempts have been seen to smuggle materials including jet fighter parts intended for shipment to Serbia-Montenegro and China. According to prosecutors, the incidents have been part of an organized effort.

Customs stopped the first suspicious shipment at the Nuijamaa border crossing point last August when it turned out that the contents did not match the accompanying documentation. What was listed as equipment for an aviation club in Serbia-Montenegro were in fact helmets for MIG fighter pilots.

Not collectors

Since then, customs has caught several more shipments, some which contained equipment and parts not yet identified, but which are suspected to have military applications. Officials turned the parts over to the Ministry of Defence and are still awaiting a report.

Licenses are required for the import and export of goods with both military and civilian uses. Such goods have been smuggle across the border before, but most often by collectors, such as in a case earlier this week when six Finnish men were arrested on the Russian side of the Niirala border crossing for trying to smuggle WW II munitions to Finland.

Now, the first evidence has been gathering that shows attempts are being made to use Finland for the illegal transit of modern military equipment.

The first court case so far brought a fine for a Russian man resident in Finland. In two other cases, charges against Russian transport drivers were dropped because there was not enough evidence that they themselves were directly involved in illegal activities.

YLE TV News


Is it possible that the Chinese suspect the Russians have been supplying them with monkey model ? or is it possible that these parts were destined for somewhere else than China for forwarding on ?
 

Gollevainen

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Well everything is possiple, the article didn't give a much, but based on what it did gave (the finnish language version), Its most likely that the final destination was China. Thats why Iraised the issue on the table, to speculate what possiple use would the parts have....Like i said, my quess is the licence manufactured j-11.
I remember hearing about possiple proplems in some spesific parts being manufactured in china...does anyone have any deeper info about this?
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
The article I have suggests possibly Malaysia, Bangladesh as well !

I can understand why certain countries might not want the parts to be sent
to bangladesh but Bangladesh dosn't currently have any su-27's

Estonia blocks illegal transport of fighter plane parts

16:13 | 27/ 04/ 2006

Print version

TALLIN, April 27 (RIA Novosti) - Estonian security officers suspect five men arrested April 19 of attempting to export parts of Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 Flanker fighter planes from the country, local prosecutors said.

The prosecutor's office said the five, detained on suspicion of illegal goods transit, were transporting the parts, declared as legal items, to a customs warehouse in Tallin, the Estonian capital, without official permission.

The prosecutor heading the investigation said, "The movement of such goods is strictly monitored throughout the world, and their transit without the necessary authorization can pose an explicit danger on an international scale."

The prosecutor's office said the parts were mainly of Russian and Belarusian origin, and were intended for export to China, Malaysia, and Bangladesh.

The items are on an official government list of strategic military goods that may not be transported without special permission from the Estonian Foreign Ministry.

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Gollevainen

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It's most likely that these two cases are linked to each others. The finnish article said that the level of this smuggeling was hihg and it definetly was illegal trading, not just some collectors bootleging weapon parts for pure hobby as the case very often in here.

But china was the sole country mentioned in both articles, tough i wont deny that other may alsohave purchased these parts, I still believe that China is the main customer
 

crobato

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Estonia does not have Su-30s. Heck, not even the Russians have operational Su-30s much less having ones that are compatible with the ones in China. And why would China need used over a decade old of decrepit Su-27 parts from Estonia when they can buy brand new from the Russians? Monkey parts? The stuff the Russians sell to the Chinese are even better than what the Russians use on their own. The Estonian planes could barely fly at all. Very questionable. Why would Malaysia and Bangladesh, which don't have Su-27s, need such parts? Very questionable. So many holes a ship could steam through.
 
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Gollevainen

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No No I think you missed the point crobato. Estonia sure don't have no Su-27, but like in the finnish case, Estonia was used as a mid-etap for the smuggling (used as a cathering base for the goods before move them forwards to the ultimate buyer). Like the article said, mostly the parts where from Russia or Belarus...
 

adeptitus

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It's said that the PRC utilize a lot of low-level human intelligence gathering. To draw an analogy, rather than 1 x 007 agent stealing top secret documents, you have several hundred people soaking up intelligence like a sponge.

If I were to speculate, I'd say that many of these smuggling operations were done by low-level agents operating independently of each other. They go out and "procure" whatever they can get their hands on and ship them back home. There's a lot of duplicate effort and much of what's sent back has little or no value, but once in a while you find a valuable item in the pile.
 

crobato

Colonel
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Gollevainen said:
No No I think you missed the point crobato. Estonia sure don't have no Su-27, but like in the finnish case, Estonia was used as a mid-etap for the smuggling (used as a cathering base for the goods before move them forwards to the ultimate buyer). Like the article said, mostly the parts where from Russia or Belarus...

And you missed the point too.

Russia and Belarus does not have any active Su-30s, and the Su-30MKKs the Chinese have happens to be a specially built model which you will not find parts from the regular Su-27s even mothballed in the RuAF. Even the Chinese Su-27SKs and J-11s are specially built and tailored for China, and a lot of components are not going to be directly usable because of the differences between the two countries planes.

It is very unlikely these parts are going for Su-27s in China when Sukhoi is so willing to sell them directly and first hand brand new parts at that. The Chinese are already complaining about parts quality why the hell would they get second hand surplus. The only reason you get this kind of component smuggling is for intelligence gathering, and these parts are not likely from Su-27s but something else.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
The question is, why does those parts need to be smuggeld? Only thing that i've come up, is that China have decided to go diffrent way of aquiring those parts than the official trade. Is this becouse of lower unitprize or that the russian side is denying the official sale? Weren't there a rumours that the J-11 licence production have suffered of apcent/the unableness of produce domestically of some parts of the orginal Su-27?

I never heard those rumors. j-11 production only suffered as a result of it's lack of multi-role performance. The parts China could not produce were included in kits. Delivery of the kits might or might not have stopped later on.

I agree with crobato, China does not need to smuggle russian parts when it can buy them.
 
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