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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Lethe said:
One thing you can do with a 25-30k ton ship that you can't do with a pair of 12-15k ships is house the same super-radar.

Note that in my conception such a heavy cruiser would fulfil a different role from the 055s. Instead of being oriented to AAW (or at best jack-of-all-trades) like 055 and similar workhorses, the cruiser brings the big radar to be employed by the entire battle fleet, whilst its own munitions are focused on delivering an offensive punch through a heavy load of land-attack missiles and naval gunfire support.

And if railguns turn out to be at all practical, they will be easiest to field (and have the greatest potential) when fitted to a large hull with power to spare.
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What super radar? Lol
Radars no matter how powerful are still limited by the earth's curvature. Like I said in my earlier post any specific sensor or weapon systems you can fit in a 30k ton warship you can probably fit in one at 15k including rail guns. It's about power manegement.

Also PLAN's theatre of operations is primarily in the pacific for the foreseeable future. A 30k battle cruiser in very very limited numbers would end up being a dock queen and actually becomes a liability in times of a major conflict.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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they already have OTH radar on most of the larger surface combatants.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
kwaigonegin said:
Also PLAN's theatre of operations is primarily in the pacific for the foreseeable future. A 30k battle cruiser in very very limited numbers would end up being a dock queen and actually becomes a liability in times of a major conflict.
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One possibility that I can think of is that as drones improve, they might not need the big runways of current aircraft carriers. Then, instead of building smaller carriers, there might be an advantage to use the saved space to install weapons instead. You would then have a battleship/carrier hybrid, outfitted with an Aegis-like defense system and carrying a small squadron of attack drones.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
kwaigonegin said:
What super radar? Lol
Radars no matter how powerful are still limited by the earth's curvature.
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The 22-foot AMDR radar won't fit on Arleigh Burke III so they had to cut it down to 16-foot. Assuming a square, that's barely half the size.

What do you do with a bigger radar? For one thing you use it to better protect your carriers and amphib vessels from American stealth bombers.

Like I said in my earlier post any specific sensor or weapon systems you can fit in a 30k ton warship you can probably fit in one at 15k including rail guns. It's about power manegement
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Larger hulls are far more efficient than multiple smaller ones because you don't have to inefficiently duplicate every system. If we assume that an 055 will devote 70% of its 112 VLS cells (78 cells) to self- and area-defensive purposes, and that my proposed cruiser would carry the same defensive warload as an 055, where the 055 has 34 cells available for offensive purposes, the cruiser has 178 -- more than five times as many. Indeed, it's probable that the cruiser would be carrying at least as many offensive missiles as the entire rest of the battle group (destroyers + frigates + submarines) put together.

Also PLAN's theatre of operations is primarily in the pacific for the foreseeable future.
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Quite right that PLAN does not have the global footprint of the United States. Therefore, if circumstances arise that require e.g. a battlegroup to be deployed to the Persian Gulf with potential requirement to deter western intervention, to strike and land ashore, to repel western counter-intervention, etc. that battle group will need to be carrying everything in the arsenal and prepared for any eventuality -- not able to rely on just zerging unescorted ships and supplied to the theatre like Americans were able to do in 1991, or able to re-prioritise VLS cells across the fleet to land-attack knowing that the air threat is minimal -- again like the Americans were able to do in 1991 and 2003.
 
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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Lethe said:
The 22-foot AMDR radar won't fit on Arleigh Burke III so they had to cut it down to 16-foot. Assuming a square, that's barely half the size.

What do you do with a bigger radar? For one thing you use it to better protect your carriers and amphib vessels from American stealth bombers.



Larger hulls are far more efficient than multiple smaller ones because you don't have to inefficiently duplicate every system. If we assume that an 055 will devote 70% of its 112 VLS cells (78 cells) to self- and area-defensive purposes, and that my proposed cruiser would carry the same defensive warload as an 055, where the 055 has 34 cells available for offensive purposes, the cruiser has 178 -- more than five times as many. Indeed, it's probable that the cruiser would be carrying at least as many offensive missiles as the entire rest of the battle group (destroyers + frigates + submarines) put together.



Quite right that PLAN does not have the global footprint of the United States. Therefore, if circumstances arise that require e.g. a battlegroup to be deployed to the Persian Gulf with potential requirement to deter western intervention, to strike and land ashore, to repel western counter-intervention, etc. that battle group will need to be carrying everything in the arsenal and prepared for any eventuality -- not able to rely on just zerging unescorted ships and supplied to the theatre like Americans were able to do in 1991, or able to re-prioritise VLS cells across the fleet to land-attack knowing that the air threat is minimal -- again like the Americans were able to do in 1991 and 2003.
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Your argument is not incorrect however like I mentioned before you have to weigh the practicalities of things against cost and capabilities.
I mean if energy, resources and manpower are unlimited sure .. Why not built two dozen 50k ton battle cruisers with EVERYTHING on it including the kitchen sink and built a million ton uber carriers that is literally a mile long and carries 400 aircrafts that's able to launch strategic bombers like the B2.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
I agree that costs, opportunity cost, and other practicalities are important, which is why I believe 2025 is the earliest date at which such a vessel should be justified. By 2025 PLAN will have two dozen modern destroyers (052D and 055) backed by another dozen older destroyers (052C, Sovs, etc.) and significant numbers of modern and large, oceangoing frigates. As such, the direct opportunity cost of building a large cruiser would not imperil broader fleet modernisation and preparedness efforts the way it would if such a project were underway today.

Further, certainly in my particular concept (as distinguished from the general case for large surface combatants) the cruiser only makes sense when it has other elements to defend and support -- amphibs and carriers. This too is what drives 2025 as the earliest possible date for such a platform, and also puts a firm cap on the number required: at most, the number of cruisers desired would be equal to the number of carriers plus amphibious task forces. More realistically you could make do with less, as those elements will often be operating in concert.
 
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