APC or IFV

yes no, no and no no. Yes they have chosen a Turretless Bradley to base the replacement for the M113 on. No as the Writing was on the wall that the most cost effective to the army was a existing hull already in service with modification No as if you track back to the 1969 Bradley when it was first conceptualized was a APC (well IFV) with a Heavy 20MM MG . no Turret a 11 man capacity + driver and a high road speed. It was reimagined through 1970's into the IFV that was introduced in 1981. This is the Hull going back to it's roots as it were.
No no as in that there will still be IFV versions of the M2 and M3 in service for sometime and right now the Army is looking to recapitalize the Brad. The AMPV may feed into that allowing Bradley to keep in service till sometime in the 2030's. How? I am glad you asked. ( Well I asked But I am telling you anyway.)
AMPV removes the Bradley Turret and remodels the interior to get more space by sutting back the turret basket, The US Army seems to be looking at a Unmanned Turret that would sit on the hull and not in the basket or at least not as deeply in the Turret basket .. EG the A4 Bradley would be using a interior based more on a AMPV Bradley. Also BAE is looking at mods to the chassis and Automotive these could be applied to the A4 BRadley. and AMPV envisions a V shaped hull mod and improvements in electronics. once more these can feed in to the IFV.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

yes no, no and no no. Yes they have chosen a Turretless Bradley to base the replacement for the M113 on. No as the Writing was on the wall that the most cost effective to the army was a existing hull already in service with modification No as if you track back to the 1969 Bradley when it was first conceptualized was a APC with a Heavy 20MM MG. no Turret a 11 man capacity and a high road speed. It was reimagined through 1970's into the IFV that was introduced in 1981. This is the Hull going back to it's roots as it were.
No no as in that there will still be IFV versions of the M2 and M3 in service for sometime and right now the Army is looking to recapitalize the Brad. The AMPV may feed into that allowing Bradley to keep in service till sometime in the 2030's. How? I am glad you asked. ( Well I asked But I am telling you anyway.)
AMPV removes the Bradley Turret and remodels the interior to get more space by sutting back the turret basket, The US Army seems to be looking at a Unmanned Turret that would sit on the hull and not in the basket or at least not as deeply in the Turret basket .. EG the A4 Bradley would be using a interior based more on a AMPV Bradley. Also BAE is looking at mods to the chassis and Automotive these could be applied to the A4 BRadley. and AMPV envisions a V shaped hull mod and improvements in electronics. once more these can feed in to the IFV.

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Sarcasm?
[video=youtube;aXQ2lO3ieBA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aXQ2lO3ieBA[/video]


I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

Just ran across a picture and on further search it turned out to have been designed by a Vietnamese citizen and his son. One of the sources used:











I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

Miragedriver said:

Sarcasm?

I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

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Well. when the Vehicle was modified each change altered it. The Biggest issues with the Bradley preproduction units that inspired the Burton report that inspired the movie related to the armor, Fuel tanks and life support. Now let me rush you to the end of Burton wanted to run a live fire test in combat conditions, Parts of Army procurement tried to cheat with sand filled rounds, Water filled fuel tanks and low power RPG's. Burton tried again and again to get realistic tests. in the end congress stepped in and a real test was launched... Bradley Failed.

But how did it end up in service? The Bradley was reconfigured.
In the The Pentagon Wars Erroneously say's its the israelis had on Order a Improved version that was in concurrent production. In Real history this was false, In actuality only the Saudi's Bought any Bradley's outside of the US. What The Israelis did have that was better and in concurrent production with a inferior American Army version was the M113.
In either case a number of modifications were made at there request including steel Appliqué armour over the front bottom and sides,spall liners, Moving the fuel tanks to the outside and installing fire suppression, A Yoke ( steering Wheel) instead of the traditional lever drive and a Ventilation system. later on Upgrades to the Engine and changes to the internal seating brought the internal troop capacity back to 7. additional armor and engine mods as well as sensors and NBC systems improved it to today's A3 standard. Burton's modifications were implemented.
The Movie the Pentagon Wars was filmed in 1998 the events it portrayed were dramatization but would have been in 1981. by 1991 the Bradley IFV was in Iraq.
[video=youtube_share;sum91rgJXkI]http://youtu.be/sum91rgJXkI[/video]
In Combat it was not perfect but the M2 and M3 with there TOW2 Missiles took a number of Iraqi MBT and BMP IFV's in heavily one sided engagements with Bradley coming out the Victor in overwhelming numbers.

Miragedriver said:

Just ran across a picture and on further search it turned out to have been designed by a Vietnamese citizen and his son. One of the sources used:

I will now get back to bottling my Malbec

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Did you read and understand the post? I saw it quite some time ago on Facebook; however, I didn't care to post it here. It says the father and his son produce the armored vehicle for Cambodian force who appreciates their design. He used to design and air worthy helicopter but the Vietnamese government never care about him. The farmer said wherever people appreciate his designs, he will go there and work, and he will produce more such vehicle for the Cambodian armed force.

I personally don't like his design at, may be it is extremely cheap that the Cambodian armed force like it. I don't know and I've never seen it here.

I am assuming that the Taller of the two photographed is the Father, and Assuming a height of maybe 5'10 if that's right looking at the vehicle I am guessing a 11 foot height for the Vehicle. Also looking at the MG in the Turret I am guessing a Heavy Machine gun.

SteelBird said:

Did you read and understand the post? I saw it quite some time ago on Facebook; however, I didn't care to post it here. It says the father and his son produce the armored vehicle for Cambodian force who appreciates their design. He used to design and air worthy helicopter but the Vietnamese government never care about him. The farmer said wherever people appreciate his designs, he will go there and work, and he will produce more such vehicle for the Cambodian armed force.

I personally don't like his design at, may be it is extremely cheap that the Cambodian armed force like it. I don't know and I've never seen it here.

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Google translate works wonders. I don't think the vehicle has much significant military value, but it would be fun to build and fight my way through city traffic with.

Miragedriver said:

TerraN old Friend, I guess we are back to the chicken and egg scenario. I seams that the question was asked that the large turrets on many modern IFV have become so large that it effectively cuts down the number of infantry that may be carried in the vehicle. Basically what ends up happening is that they are now carrying 6 combat troops in lieu of the 10 which was carried prior. IFVs seem to be evolving into tanks that can transport infantry.

The question really then becomes “Do we want to have a vehicle that can do it all, or have two versions of the same vehicle”. Also is the primary purpose; combating insurgents and urban patrolling, or is it large scale army maneuvers as we trained for in the cold war?

The answer to both of these questions could be answered the same way. One vehicle (chassis, drivetrain, etc...) but filling two purposes. Imagine if you will a vehicle mounting two separate weapons system. The first vehicle will be our APC/IFV. This vehicle could mount a simple 20mm auto cannon with say a 40mm grenade launcher, with a turret similar to VCTP. This vehicle would be sufficient in its role as an infantry transport vehicle and would provide adequate firepower to suppress the enemy and permit the infantry to perform their required duties.

The other vehicle would be the fire support vehicle which would mount a larger cannon (90mm 100mm with HE rounds) in conjunction with an auto cannon and ATGW. A turret with something along the lines of a BMP-3 turret. This vehicle could be the designated fire support vehicle. And could be integrated in any ratio a particular military deems appropriate. 1 fire support vehicle for every 5 to 10 IFV. Existing stocks of surplus M-113 could be modified to fill this role. Even surplus German Marder or wheeled APC’s.


I will now get back to bottling Malbec

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Folks, such vehicles already exist! It's called the Merkava and the Namer

Lebanon is ordering the Brazilian/Italian -MR

Puma the more sophisticated AIFV the more big also except Namer delivered this year 350 in order, 44 in 8 Mech bat. replace Marder 1A5.