anti-sub capability advancement of PLAN.

it's kind of pointless to use Vietnamese as the main threat. Those 6 subs really don't both any kind of problem to PLAN. It's a total waste of money for Vietnam. Let's just say that with all of their experience operating Kilo subs, they should know as well as anyone on how to hunt Kilos. And the issue with Chinese ASW is more blue water than green water. If you want to think about threat, think about Oyashio subs and Collins subs as the main conventional threats to China.

tphuang said:

it's kind of pointless to use Vietnamese as the main threat. Those 6 subs really don't both any kind of problem to PLAN. It's a total waste of money for Vietnam. Let's just say that with all of their experience operating Kilo subs, they should know as well as anyone on how to hunt Kilos. And the issue with Chinese ASW is more blue water than green water. If you want to think about threat, think about Oyashio subs and Collins subs as the main conventional threats to China.

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I will not say it's a waste of money for Vietnamese Navy to acquire Submarine. Remember Many other countries still have their claim on Spratly Island like Malaysia, Brunei, Philippines and Indonesia...

6 Kilo against this countries is a massive threat and may inflict decisive damage to them.I believe Vietnam Navy never pin any hope in wnnning naval battle against PLAN. The 1988 naval battle in Spratly Island clearly demonstrate that. Not to mention we are now at 2009, PLAN modernisation pace is much faster than Vietnam Navy.

Their Kilo is more for using against weaker countries.

Lion said:

I will not say it's a waste of money for Vietnamese Navy to acquire Submarine. Remember Many other countries still have their claim on Spratly Island like Malaysia, Brunei, Philippines and Indonesia...

6 Kilo against this countries is a massive threat and may inflict decisive damage to them.I believe Vietnam Navy never pin any hope in wnnning naval battle against PLAN. The 1988 naval battle in Spratly Island clearly demonstrate that. Not to mention we are now at 2009, PLAN modernisation pace is much faster than Vietnam Navy.

Their Kilo is more for using against weaker countries.

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On the contrary, I think those subs are mainly targeted for the PLAN. Right now is deep recession, Vietnam still a poor country with annual GDP around 80 billion is forking out $1.8billion for 6 kilos, to me, that's a desperate move.
That's their only hope, those subs. Hey, they(government) publicly says they want to take Paracel island back(Even appointed a mayor for that island), which China is currently occupying.

To me, the chance of upcoming naval conflict between China & Vietnam is much >> than CHina & US.

lilzz said:

On the contrary, I think those subs are mainly targeted for the PLAN. Right now is deep recession, Vietnam still a poor country with annual GDP around 80 billion is forking out $1.8billion for 6 kilos, to me, that's a desperate move.
That's their only hope, those subs. Hey, they(government) publicly says they want to take Paracel island back(Even appointed a mayor for that island), which China is currently occupying.

To me, the chance of upcoming naval conflict between China & Vietnam is much >> than CHina & US.

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I will say 6 kilo against PLAN is sucide. Plus starting a naval war with PLAN for spratly will give China a great opportunity to capture all Vietnam remaining spratly island. Vietnam have their lesson learn from 1988 incident. I doubt they will do it again.

The politician can say whatever they want to win over mass support. End of the day, its the action counts!

PLAN probably has one of the worst anti-sub capability out of all major powers, since China has neither big helipcopters or good sonars, which both are heavily embargoed.

Look, I think my previous comments maybe too harsh. I'm not saying 6 Kilos for Vietnam is not going to be helpful, but I think it's a really bad investment. You are paying $300 million per Kilo. China only paid $200 million each and they had at the time the best exported version of kilos and then got a few of them refitted at their own shipyard. With the amount of work they've done with kilos and operational experience with it, they know the sub inside and out. If you think about all of the subs out there that Vietnam could've bought like Amur, U214, Scorpene, is it really worth spending that much on such an outdated sub? btw, it's the same case with Venezuela, although they actually had no choice other than taking what the Russians offered.

pugachev_diver said:

PLAN probably has one of the worst anti-sub capability out of all major powers, since China has neither big helipcopters or good sonars, which both are heavily embargoed.

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what's preventing them having good sonars? If they can build good radar they should be able to build good sonar.

what about hunter sub 093?

tphuang said:

is it really worth spending that much on such an outdated sub? btw, it's the same case with Venezuela, although they actually had no choice other than taking what the Russians offered.

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outdated? I would think majority of PLAN's diesel subs like the songs are at the same level as the kilos. Their more advanced Yuans are very limited in numbers.

It's often heard that the best defence against a submarine is another submarine. With over 60 attack submarines, what is with this lack of ASW capability? How capable are China's attack submarines? Which is more effective? A towed array sonar or the sonar of an attack submarine?

lilzz said:

what's preventing them having good sonars? If they can build good radar they should be able to build good sonar.

what about hunter sub 093?

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Sonar technology is the most sensitive thing there is, just under the sensitivity of stealth technology. no western countries would transfer it to china, neither would the eastern bloc due to its sensitivity