Anti-Ship missile

Liu Bang said:

I want to know which is the most advance anti-ship missile China has

I'm asking because sino-defense has no information on C-803 and C-805

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depends.
moskit basic: mach 2.5, 120 km
moskit improved: mach 2.5, 200 km
yj-8: mach .9, 60 km
yj-82: mach .9, 120 km
yj-83: mach 1.5, 210 km
yj-62: mch 1.5? at least, 300 km>
klubS: ,mach 2.9-3, 100 km?

a harpoon is really pathetic:
mach .9, 100 km for the latest version. all ships right now only have the 60 km version

IDonT said:

The faster the missile, the bigger it is, the bigger it is, the easier it is to spot.

How are the guidance system on these missiles?
Can they tell the difference between a destroy, 6 chaff clouds, 1 heli eminating a radar signiture of a destroyer, and a couple of decoys, while simultaneously being Jammed and shot at. Since the missiles are fast, can they discriminate and acquire the right target within 30 seconds.

There is more to anti-missile defence than shooting down the missile.

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true, it's not easy to penetrate the American missile defense, but it's not impossible either.

US navy regulary practices shooting down target drones that flies a "sunburn" type flight profile.

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The USN developed the GQM-163A Coyote as a supersonic target.

BrotherofSnake said:

The USN developed the GQM-163A Coyote as a supersonic target.

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its one thing to make a supersonic missle, but its another to put good range on it and put a warhead on. why isnt the u.s making a ashm with the coyote? seems like it has good performance.

MIGleader said:

a harpoon is really pathetic:
mach .9, 100 km for the latest version. all ships right now only have the 60 km version

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If you think a Harpoon is pathetic, you don't know it's capabilities. First off, Harpoons have a greater than 70 Nm range listed by various sources, among them Janes and USNI. That's greater than. Which means, you have no idea to it's actual range. And it's range is determined by it's launch and mode of operations. Harpoon can be carried and launched by Air, Surface, and Submarine platforms. Harpoon can also be fitted to cannisters for land launch if need be.

Harpoon has various modes of operations. It can sea-skim or cruise for longer distances at high and medium altitudes. It can detonate under a keel of a ship, or it can be programmed to hit various sections of a ship. The discriminator can identify what the masts are from the stern of the ship. To further complicate missile defenses, Harpoon can pop-up at the attack phase to slam right down on a ship near 90 degrees. So you can fire a few for sea-skim to low detonation, and a few to pop-up attack. That is very difficult to defend against. Harpoon can also be fitted with various warheads. And don't forget that the USN and USAF can really complicate enemy missile defense against Harpoons because they can fire tons of them. The reason why the US has so many of them is because they are easy to maintain and low cost.

I agree that the Russian type of heavyweight anti-ship missile is appealing because of their overall killing power. But a missile is only as good as it's targeting. China and Russia both are very lacking in C4I and targeting data in comparison with their western counterparts. To their credit, China is improving. But they are still pretty far behind. I believe the range aspects of some of these Russian missiles are bogus for this reason. Simply because you need adequate targeting data to use them. And for this reason, most ship to ship warfare would likely to be in range of a ship carrying Harpoon anyways.

Give me subsonic Harpoons with US C4I, US ECM, and American Electronic Warfare capabilities anyday.

i dont think klubs are supersonic....

@Sea Dog; Aint the Moskit capable of doing all that, just better?

Aint the Moskit capable of doing all that, just better?

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I don't know if the Sunburn can do that pop up thing the Harpoon does.

swimmerXC said:

i dont think klubs are supersonic....

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they are not pure supersonic. They have two stage. The subsonic cruising phase and the supersonic attack phase I guess.

As for the Russian missiles, it could be quite true that those numbers are bogus, since all of their other numbers seem to be exagerrated. However, most of the numbers for the Chinese missiles are underrated. For example, sinodefense for some reason still lists the range of yj-83 as 150KM, even though it has gone 250KM from air launched and 210KM from sea launched exercises. As for the accuracy on these missiles. It's hard to really say how these missiles are guided. For example, the R-77 AAMs use the fire and forget practice whereas AMRAAM uses the continuing guidance.

If we apply it to navy, harpoon probably needs the continuing guidance and it is probably quite accurate. However, moskit or club probably uses the fire and forget practice. So, the ship only needs an approximate location of the opposing ship before firing at it, so a weaker radar can still do the job. Obviously, it would be more prone to decoys. Either way, I'd really love to hear about the guidance on the different AShm.

Gauntlet said:

@Sea Dog; Aint the Moskit capable of doing all that, just better?

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Not quite. In regards to maneuvering in the attack phase, the Moskit does maneuver in the horizontal plane, but it does not pop-up attack like a Harpoon. Since the Moskit is so fast, this is very effective in throwing off ship defenses as well. But the Moskit cannot pinpoint areas to attack on a ship like a Harpoon can. It also cannot be aimed to explode below the waterline like the Harpoon. Plus I forgot to mention that multiple Harpoon's can be pre-programmed to fly set waypoints and can be timed to be at the target at the same time but from different threat axis's. Any ship would have a hard time dealing with that. Moskit is fire and forget, direct to target trajectory only. Yup, give me Harpoon system over a Moskit anyday.

@tphuang. You're right about the KLUB-S in general. But I believe there is a pure subsonic version with a more powerful warhead. KLUB is based on the highly effective SS-N-27 system. And I believe all the new PLAN kilos will be KLUB capable.