American Economics Thread

[AndrewS]

The American economy is one of the strongest in the world... It's not even a debate. The challenges that face U.S. is the inefficient deployment of its resources and inability of the government to provide basic common goods to its citizens. The main ones of course being affordable housing and healthcare.

I've made fun of people complaining about food costs before in this thread and I'll do it again. I have sympathy for American poor, but paying marginally more for food isn't why they're poor. They're poor because housing is becoming unaffordable and frankly, most poor people are shit with money or knowing how to move up in the world.

It's more than just housing or healthcare. It seems like every sector is becoming more of a monopoly, so they charge as much as possible because there is no competition.

Plus part of it is the culture with the constant advertising which makes people feel they have to keep buying and spending. Coming from Europe or Asia, the amount of advertising in the US is really noticeable

 

[zbb]

In many big cities in US, even making low six figures feels like poverty level

In New York City, families making $400,000 qualify for financial aid at private schools. And that $400,000 threshold was from 10+ years ago, I'm sure the threshold is higher now.

 

[HighGround]

In many big cities in US, even making low six figures feels like poverty level

Only in NY, LA, and SF areas.

Making 6 figures outside of those states provides a very good lifestyle. Seattle is like a top 10 area and it is very much affordable on 100K.
The issue is buying a house. You can find an apartment easily, but actual single family homes in SEA are beyond the means of vast majority of people.

That said, the obsession with single family housing is one of the core problems behind unaffordable housing.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Only in NY, LA, and SF areas.

Making 6 figures outside of those states provides a very good lifestyle. Seattle is like a top 10 area and it is very much affordable on 100K.
The issue is buying a house. You can find an apartment easily, but actual single family homes in SEA are beyond the means of vast majority of people.

That said, the obsession with single family housing is one of the core problems behind unaffordable housing.

What makes Seattle more affordable? Food, gas, groceries are all more expensive in Seattle than in New York. Like you mention, home prices are extremely high in Seattle, higher than the New York metro areas. Seattle is the 2nd most expensive area on the West Coast, though relatively there are more higher paying jobs in Seattle than LA. The main advantages of Seattle vs Bay Area/LA/New York is lower real estate tax rates and no state income tax. I'd rank the cost of US cities in the following order: 1 Bay Area (by far), 2 Seattle / LA, 3 New York / Boston.

 

[HighGround]

What makes Seattle more affordable? Food, gas, groceries are all more expensive in Seattle than in New York. Like you mention, home prices are extremely high in Seattle, higher than the New York metro areas. Seattle is the 2nd most expensive area on the West Coast, though relatively there are more higher paying jobs in Seattle than LA. The main advantages of Seattle vs Bay Area/LA/New York is lower real estate tax rates and no state income tax. I'd rank the cost of US cities in the following order: 1 Bay Area (by far), 2 Seattle / LA, 3 New York / Boston.

Rental prices.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Rental prices.

Is rent that cheap in Seattle? From what I remember, even a decade ago rent for a single bedroom apartment in either the city or a decent suburb in Seattle Area is 1000+. In New York, outside of Manhattan, rent for a single bedroom apartment is also in the low to mid 1000s. Of course, the apartment in New York is going to be smaller/shittier/older. In Seattle, basically anywhere you live you will require a personal vehicle for transportation, whereas in New York a car is completely unnecessary if you live within the city. The only area in which rent is going to eat up a significant proportion of a 6 figure income is the Bay Area. The biggest difference in living costs between New York and Seattle is going to be income taxes, as in New York city you'd have to pay both state income tax and city income tax (unless you can circumvent the city tax).

 

[HighGround]

Is rent that cheap in Seattle? From what I remember, even a decade ago rent for a single bedroom apartment in either the city or a decent suburb in Seattle Area is 1000+. In New York, outside of Manhattan, rent for a single bedroom apartment is also in the low to mid 1000s. Of course, the apartment in New York is going to be smaller/shittier/older. In Seattle, basically anywhere you live you will require a personal vehicle for transportation, whereas in New York a car is completely unnecessary if you live within the city. The only area in which rent is going to eat up a significant proportion of a 6 figure income is the Bay Area. The biggest difference in living costs between New York and Seattle is going to be income taxes, as in New York city you'd have to pay both state income tax and city income tax (unless you can circumvent the city tax).

It’s not that it’s cheap, but it is less than in comparable metro areas. the dollar goes further as well.

if you want to either buy or rent house/apartment, you can still find sub 600K units within 40 minutes of Seattle. Sub $1,000 rental units exist as well, though they’re going to be studios more often than not.

In term of cars, it is actually possible to live in King County without a car. Train and light rail make that lifestyle a lot more accessible than 15 years ago.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

It’s not that it’s cheap, but it is less than in comparable metro areas. the dollar goes further as well.

if you want to either buy or rent house/apartment, you can still find sub 600K units within 40 minutes of Seattle. Sub $1,000 rental units exist as well, though they’re going to be studios more often than not.

In term of cars, it is actually possible to live in King County without a car. Train and light rail make that lifestyle a lot more accessible than 15 years ago.

This topic piqued my personal curiosity, as having formerly lived in Seattle I remember my overall monthly expenses when I first moved to New York was considerably lower than in Seattle (of course this is just personal anecdotal experience, everyone's spending patterns are different). In particular, I remember that food was implausibly cheap in New York before 2020. Back then $20 was enough for an entire week of groceries or a full of day of eating out each meal (over last 4 years it feels costs went up x3 for food, especially eating out). Each time I visit Seattle, I am shocked by how expensive homes (in terms of buying a single family home) are in Seattle, which are the highest I've seen anywhere outside the Bay Area.

 

[HighGround]

This topic piqued my personal curiosity, as having formerly lived in Seattle I remember my overall monthly expenses when I first moved to New York was considerably lower than in Seattle (of course this is just personal anecdotal experience, everyone's spending patterns are different). In particular, I remember that food was implausibly cheap in New York before 2020. Back then $20 was enough for an entire week of groceries or a full of day of eating out each meal (over last 4 years it feels costs went up x3 for food, especially eating out). Each time I visit Seattle, I am shocked by how expensive homes (in terms of buying a single family home) are in Seattle, which are the highest I've seen anywhere outside the Bay Area.

There are some extremely expensive areas in Seattle, but it peters out significantly once you start leaving those expensive neighborhoods or just move outside the city.

As a theoretical example. Let’s say I make $100,000 working at Microsoft. Here’s what I would do personally.

Rent a Kent Station a 1-2 bedroom apartment $1200-1800 on paper. The train is literally 5 minutes away by foot, it’s 20 minutes train ride to Seattle and the MS building is another 10-15 minutes away by single bus.

If I’m not an idiot, I’ll buy a Civic or something for ~$600 at most. There’s a Safeway within walking distance as well, a ribeye is like ~$20.
It’s a very doable and luxurious lifestyle now that I think about it. Should I divorce and career switch?

 

[PiSigma]

Hahahaha, nice joke.

I'm not an Amerimutt but as a european i get top 30% salary in germany and still could never buy a house in a known city.


Can't Imagine any better conditions in the states

My cousin bought in Duisburg area 10 years ago and it was almost a million euros. Now if they buy they can't afford it anymore.

I'm in Germany right now, and I feel things are definitely 40-50% more expensive in Germany than Canada and 100% more expensive than US. So those complaining about inflation in US, you guys got it good. Sure beer and cheese is cheap in Europe, but everything else is cheaper back in NA.