Aircraft Carriers

Obi Wan sez..

The C and M class Carriers were a godsend to many Navies wanting to join the Carrier club potwar, as they were mostly about 70% complete languishing in shipyards for some years waiting for some one to buy them (sounds familiar...), were economical to operate and easy to modernise due to their basic and uncomplicated layout.

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Colossus and Majestic class ships were excellent choices for many navies as you stated. They all served long and industrious carrers.

Too bad for many nations that the US did not follow suit with with the Essex class. 24 of these ships were built to completion. Two(Iwo Jima & Reprisal) were left uncompleted. The major drawback was the wooden flight deck..The lack of an armoured flight deck led to many casulities during WWII. But no Essex class was sunk.Only one, the Franklin, was "mission killed" and did not return to service. Excellent ships of a simple design.



I served on the USS Hancock(CVA-19) in '74 & '75. I was onboard for these photos.

Obi Wan..Remember you mentioned that the RN was placing Chinooks onbaord? well the USN is expermiting also on board LHD-6. I had some pics the other day but now the USN deleted them ..Here's the story anyway.



BHR Operates with U.S. Army Chinook Helicopters
Story Number: NNS060907-10
Release Date: 9/7/2006 4:10:00 PM

By Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Apprentice Jeffery J. Gabriel Jr., USS Bonhomme Richard Public Affairs

ABOARD USS BONHOMME RICHARD, At Sea (NNS) -- The multipurpose amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) (BHR) conducted flight operations with U.S. Army MH-47G Chinook helicopters from Aug. 31 to Sept. 3 while operating in the Pacific Ocean.

Two MH-47G Chinooks, designed for Army Special Forces, were flown out to BHR for their pilots and maintenance personnel to practice launching and recovering at sea. The Chinook is a heavy assault helicopter, based on the CH-47 airframe, specifically designed and built for the special operations aviation mission.

“For the second time, we have been able to operate with different kinds of helicopters,” said BHR Commanding Officer, Capt. Steve Greene, referring to BHR’s operational tests with the UH-1Y "Super Huey" and AH-1Z "Super Cobra" helicopters during the same timeframe. “Chinooks are very large and capable aircraft, and we were happy to welcome our fellow warriors from the U.S. Army aboard the BHR.”

Equipped with aerial refueling capability, a fast-rope rappelling system and other upgrades, the all-weather MH-47G can deliver Special Operations forces and their equipment to otherwise inaccessible areas.

“It was a great opportunity for our crew and the Army to operate these Chinooks in the maritime environment,” said Greene, a helicopter pilot from Haddonfield, N.J. “Built for joint operations with the U.S. Marines Corps, Bonhomme Richard is a versatile warship that can support a wide variety of joint missions. BHR brings responsiveness, agility and precision to any theater of operations.”

Chinooks are going to sea aboard British CVs/LPHs simply because they are already in service and adapting them for sea service (ie designing and fitting folding rotor blades) is cheaper than purchasing a new type eg CH-53 Sea Stallion. The Undercarriage problem you mentioned is something 'management' wouldn't worry about because it's not their problem!
As to the Essex class, I have wondered if it would have been possible to refit them with steel (unarmoured) decks to allow them to operate aircraft such as the Phantom, but the question of extra topweight comes up. When they recieved their angled decks and hurricane bows (SCB-125) their gun batteries were reduced as topweight compensation, and swapping the wooden decks for steel ones may have left them defenceless or worse, unstable. However, if it had been feasible, a limited program to upgrade the seven steam catapult equipped ships (Intrepid, Ticonderoga, Hancock, Lexington, Shangri La, Bon Homme Richard and Oriskany) at least would have afforded them longer careers and kept them in the (fully maintained) reserve fleet as re-activateable ships able to operate the same types as the Midway class. They may also have found their way into other nations service (eg Brazil, whose Sao Paolo is similar in size and configuration to an Essex, and Argentina perhaps. Australia would have been interested as a replacement for the Melbourne). The Essex class were well designed, well built ships that were very effective in service, but they weren't designed for modern methods of operation (eg steam cats and an angled deck as well as a hurricane bow) and adding these things to an existing design will always incur a penalty (the aforementioned topweight). Fortunately they had a large gun battery to trade in, and the other likely reason for not upgrading the flightdecks to steel was probably cost. A lot of ships to refit, and a limited budget to spend on them, quantity semms to have won the argument.

Obi Wan sez;

As to the Essex class, I have wondered if it would have been possible to refit them with steel (unarmoured) decks to allow them to operate aircraft such as the Phantom, but the question of extra topweight comes up.

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I know on the ships re-fitted with an angle deck the landing aera was covered with steel. You know there was steel underneath the wood. It was ,of course, not armoured.

On the Hancock they replaced that steel in a 1974 re-fit. Trouble was it raise that portion of the flight deck about 1.5 inches(38mm). This caused the nose wheel gear on some F-8's to collaspe on landing. The F-8 were eventually forbidden to land at night on the Hancock. An F-8 crashed right in front of me in Feb. '75..The nose gear collasped. It was a day landing.

As far as aircraft is concerned the vernable A-4 Skyhawk was the best jet for that size ship. Small, great weapons load and reliable. To me the F-8 was to large.

Oh yea us USN flight deck types often called the Skyhawk a "Scooter".

Well I must say that I’m quite disappointed that nobody mentioned one of the most interesting carrier designs ever; first post WWII carrier design USS United States CVA-58…

CVA-58 was product of post WWII US doctrine and while construction was scraped only 5 days after it started many of the design futures were later used in Forestall class…

Development history:

When WWII ended USA was only nation that possessed nuclear weapons. For USN that was not good news; thanks to new nuclear doctrine traditional role of navy (control and surveillance of sea) has simple become insignificant:
- After Japan capitulated there were no opponents that could challenge US interests at sea (Soviet navy at that time was more or less insignificant threat)
- USAF had monopoly on strategic nuclear weapons delivery and since at that time US doctrine was based on nuclear monopoly as deterrent they decided to significantly decrease conventional forces( including navy)…

Naturally in such situation USN tried to stop that and since tech level didn’t allow production of intercontinental jet bombers able to carry first generation nuclear weapons (usual nuke at that time had weight of aprox. 5t) they proposed construction of navy jet bombers that would attack USSR from carrier deployed in Atlantic and Pacific ocean (A-2 Savage and A-3 Skywarrior).

Since USN had only three carriers (modified Midway class) that could carry these bombers they started CVB-X program that led to CVA-58.
Unlike previous carriers CVA-58 was specifically design to carry strategic bombers. First design proposition didn’t even have hangar deck thanks to the bomber size but final design incorporated small hangar deck for fighter air wing.

The flush-deck United States was designed to launch and recover the 100,000 pound (45 t) aircraft required to carry early-model nuclear weapons, which weighed as much as five tons. The ship would have no island and be equipped with four aircraft elevators located at the deck edges, and four catapults, two at the bow with the outer ones at the deck edges staggered back. This would enable simultaneous launch of two fighters and two bombers.

Final specifications:

Displacement: 83,350t full, 68,000t standard

Length: 1085 ft (331 m) overall, 980 ft (299 m) waterline, 1088 ft (332 m) flight deck Beam: 125 ft (38 m), 198 ft (60 m) flight deck Draught: 37 feet (11.3 m)

Propulsion and power: Eight 1200 lbf/in2 (8.3 MPa) Foster-Wheeler boilers, four Westinghouse steam turbines totalling 280,000 hp (209 MW) driving four 20.5 ft (6.2 m) diameter screws

Speed: 33 knots (61 km/h)

Complement: 2958 officers and men in the crew; 2000 officers and men in the air wing

Armament: 8 x 5 in (127 mm) 54-caliber guns in single mounts, 16 x 76 mm 70-caliber guns in eight twin mounts, 20 x 20 mm Oerlikon antiaircraft guns

Air wing: 12 to 18 (nuclear-capable)bombers and 54 jet fighters

United States was also designed to provide air support for amphibious forces and to conduct sea control operations, but its primary mission was long-range nuclear bombardment.

That mission put the ship in harm's way long before construction began. The United States Air Force viewed United States as a challenge to their monopoly on strategic nuclear weapons delivery. Swayed by limited funds and bitter opposition from the United States Army and Air Force, Secretary of Defense Louis A. Johnson announced on 23 April 1949 — five days after the ship's keel was laid down — the cancellation of construction of United States. Secretary of the Navy John Sullivan immediately resigned, and the subsequent "Revolt of the Admirals" cost Admiral Louis Denfeld his position as Chief of Naval Operations, but atomic bombs went to sea on the aircraft carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1950.

It was fortunate that the USS United States was not completed to her original design as she would have been technologically obsolete before she was launched. The advent of the Steam catapult and the angled deck allowed larger aircraft to be operated from existing (albeit refitted) carriers and allowed the retention of the island superstructure and thus command facilities as well as radar antennae. The design plans for CVA-58 were dusted off, improved with the inclusion of these advances, and ordered as USS Forrestal CVA-59 and her sisters. Indeed the line of development dan be traced all the way to the current Nimitz class CVNs, and thus can be viewed as the 'granddaddy' of them all. Forrestals original design was very similar to CVA-58 in layout but was changed before construction had progressed very far. United States is a fascinating design, but would have been an evolutionary cul de sac requiring a massive reconstruction early in her career. The A-3 Skywarrior eventually flew from refitted Essex class carriers as well as Midway, Forrestal and Kitty Hawk class CVs and Enterprise and Nimitz class CVNs.

Above: Two A-3 Skywarriors being loaded onto the steam catapults of the USS Bon Homme Richard CVA-31 in the 1960s. A third A-3 is parked behind them on the angled deck.

Obi I agree that CVA-58 design didn’t really had any future but what fascinates me is impact this ship made on future carrier design and controversies surrounding its development, construction and cancellation…

While CVA-58 was never build she had significant influence on US navy future and that’s why I made my post… I joust can’t see how we can talk about modern carriers and forget to mention this design…

isthvan said:

Obi I agree that CVA-58 design didn’t really had any future but what fascinates me is impact this ship made on future carrier design and controversies surrounding its development, construction and cancellation…

While CVA-58 was never build she had significant influence on US navy future and that’s why I made my post… I joust can’t see how we can talk about modern carriers and forget to mention this design…

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We are singing from the same hymn sheet here, and I'm sure we would have gotten around to CVA-58 eventually. Thanks for posting all the info and the pics, whilst her flight deck layout wasn't adopted by subsequent vessels her hull design did form the basis for all following US carriers. The most important thing about this ship in my humble opinion is that she opened the door for the 'super carrier' concept which has revolutionised naval warfare and is still with us today.

Excellent post isthvan! Simply outstanding.

The USAF generals convinced congress that their nuclear delivery capablity was all that would ever be needed to win a war. How wrong they were!

The United States was indeed the precursor to the super carrier. Did you guys know that the name United States was the original name of CVN-75,USS Harry S. Truman? But because of more political squablining among the US Congress the name was give to CVN-75.



It is sad that a CVN is named after Pres.Truman. Why? It was his ideal to reduce the USN CV force as much as he could based on those USAF generals advice.

Forrestal Class

Prior to the start of the Korean war the USAF generals in their lack of forsight had sucessfully "sunk" CVA-58. But the start of the war on the Korean penisuela would prove how valuable the aircraft carrier was. The US was called upon to suppourt UN forces with air and sea power. The US lacking tactial air power in the region relied on aircraft carries to bring their air power to the fray. It was evident that the USN needed a larger CV capable of operating larger and more powerful jet aircraft. So the Forrestal class was born.



""CV-59 FORRESTAL class
In carrier aviation the lessons of Korea, the availability of more money, and the implications of the future led to a dramatic reversal of policy. In July 1951, only two years after cancellation of the supercarrier United States, a contract was awarded for the first of six vessels of the Forrestal class, ships more than 1,000 feet in overall length and with a full load displacement almost twice that of the Essex carriers. On these colossal hulls, in addition to machinery for speeds upwards of 33 knots, the new class of carrier provided larger fuel capacity, larger hangars, more powerful catapults, more elevators, and an angled deck layout which would permit the handling of almost 100 of the larger and higher performance aircraft soon to become available.

The development of the Forrestal, the US Navy's first super carrier, represented many significant improvements over previous carrier designs. Forrestal was the first carrier designed specifically to operate jet aircraft, and included an angled deck which permitted simultaneous takeoffs and landings. Forrestal's revolutionary design became the basis for all US carriers that followed. As the first aircraft carrier designed specifically for jet aircraft, she featured an armored flight deck. Additional "firsts" were an enclosed hurricane bow, steam-powered catapults for launching aircraft and four deck-edge elevators for moving aircraft to/from the hangar and flight decks.

The contracts originally let for CV 59 and 60 (Forrestal and Saratoga) did not include an angled deck in their designs. In 1953 the Navy redesigned the flight deck plans for the Forrestal and incorporated an angled landing deck. These changes were also made to the designs for the Saratoga. The contract for Forrestal was awarded in 1951 and for Saratoga in 1952. The contract for Ranger and Indpendence (CV 61 and 62) were not awarded until 1954. Therefore, the original contract designs for the Ranger and Indpendence would have included an angled deck. Technically speaking, Ranger (CVA 61) was the first carrier designed and built as an angled deck carrier.

The flight deck had a different layout than later aircraft carriers, with the island placed closer to the bow and a different starboard elevator configuration (one forward, two aft). On the port side, the number four elevator is forward of the two waist catapults -- on later carriers, that elevator is aft of the waist cats.

The Navy originally planned eight ships of the Forrestal class. When improvements in the original Forrestal design were incorporated into the last four, they were designated as the separate Kitty Hawk class"".

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In the 1980's the USN designed a major re-fit program called SLEP(Service Life Extension Program). This program was designed keep the CV-59 ships in service for another 20 years. However the ships were being decomissioned only 8-10 years after SLEP. The Ranger never recieved SLEP.

There were four Forrestal class CV's, Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger and Indpendence. All four have been striken from the "Navy list" and are awaiting disposal.

From left to right, Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger, Indpendence and a pic of CV-59 class deck layout.