Aircraft Carriers

San Diego Harbor is an excellent place to see carriers. Going into downtown on the highway, you can see right into the harbor. The carriers (last time I went Enterprise and another were there, and if I remember right there was an Arleigh Burke too.) are right across the harbor from the freeway and the Marine Corps recruit depot. Also, if you go downtown onto the area of the harbor where cruise ships dock and there are a few restaurants, gift shops and old sailig ships you can go on, you can look right across the water and see a carrier right there. There was one in port when I went.

Finn McCool said:

San Diego Harbor is an excellent place to see carriers. Going into downtown on the highway, you can see right into the harbor. The carriers (last time I went Enterprise and another were there, and if I remember right there was an Arleigh Burke too.) are right across the harbor from the freeway and the Marine Corps recruit depot. Also, if you go downtown onto the area of the harbor where cruise ships dock and there are a few restaurants, gift shops and old sailig ships you can go on, you can look right across the water and see a carrier right there. There was one in port when I went.

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Yes Finn San Diego is a cool place to see the USN and USMC assets. You are almost guarnteed to see a carrier in port because two are homeported there and CVN's from the Pacific northwest train there. But you did not see the Enterprise. It has been on the east coast since about 1990...

Next time you are in San Diego go see the USS Midway musuem. Awesome for a 61 year old aircraft carrier..check it out! In it's first year of operation June '04 to June '05 the Midway attraced over 880,000 visitors....



I was sent a "PM" about what is the white structure on the flight deck of the Ike. this is my answer;
The tent is one of two things.
1) the Ike is having some work done on it's waist catapults.
3) The tent is for a speical event that someone(admrial) wanted to hold on the flight deck of the Ike. Movie, party, funeral could be anything...US tax dollars at work!

USN has sent the USS Wasp(LHD-1) on a "surge" deployment to the shores off Lebanon. Intrestingly enough no Marines are on baord. Just a helo detatchment of CH-53 Sea Dragons....They will be suppourting the US Embasy in Beruit

Assault ship Wasp heads to Lebanon
By JACK DORSEY, The Virginian-Pilot
© August 23, 2006

NORFOLK - The Navy has ordered the amphibious assault ship Wasp to leave for the waters off Lebanon as early as Friday to support any relief efforts by the American embassy in Beirut.

Nearly 1,300 sailors but no Marines are being sent, said Cmdr. Conrad Chun, a spokesman for the 2nd Fleet, based in Norfolk.

A helicopter detachment, amphibious craft unit and a medical team will accompany the ship and be available to evacuate American citizens still in Lebanon.

The sudden departure was rumored late last week, but confirmed Tuesday after Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld signed off on the plan, Chun said.

It is not known how long the deployment will last - the Navy tries to keep its overseas deployments to no longer than six months.

Called a "surge" deployment, it allows the Navy's fleets to be more flexible in developing sailing schedules. Ships are still deployed about six months and home for about a year. However, those timetable are no longer cast in stone and can be longer, or shorter, depending on the need.

The Wasp last deployed overseas between February and September 2004.

"This is a surge deployment, and they will return once our mission is complete," Chun said.

While the Navy remains committed to deployments not exceeding six months, the Wasp will remain on station as long as required to meet an assigned mission, Chun said.

The Navy earlier shifted several other Norfolk-based amphibious ships and escorts, some assigned to the five-ship Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group, from deployments in the Red Sea and Indian Ocean back to the Mediterranean Sea soon after fighting broke out between Israel and Hezbollah.

They helped evacuate more than 14,000 Americans from Lebanon to safety in Cyprus and Turkey.

After a cease-fire that went into effect last week, though, those sailors and Marines were ordered to resume their original deployment to the 5th Fleet area of operations in the Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf.

Sailing with the 844-foot, 40,358-ton Wasp are: a detachment of MH-53 Sea Dragon helicopters from Mine Countermeasure Helicopter Squadron 14, in Norfolk; Assault Craft Units Two and Four, from Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base; and a medical team.



Reach Jack Dorsey at (757) 446-2284 or [email protected].

IDonT said:

The Russians fielded the Yak 38 and the cancelled Yak 141 as STOVL aircraft in the late 80's. Currently though, no other VSTOL aircraft other than the F-35 B and the V-22 Opsrey are indevelopment.

The Russians did find export on their MIg 29K to india to outfit the Gorshkov.

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Only the Yak-38 went into service, the Yak-41/141 never made it beyond prototypes. They used one prototype for carrier landing tests and it crashed.

The Yak-38 basically entered service with the Kiev-class ships, and retierd with the Kiev-class ships. The first Yak-38 sqad entered service in 1975 onboard of Kiev, and the last Yak-38 squad left service onboard of the Baku/Admiral Gorshkov sometime between 1994-1996.

During the height of its operation (late 1980's to early 1990s), the Soviet/Russian navy had 4 Kiev-class ships, each with a squad of 12 Yak-38's. The total production of Yak-38 & Yak-38U was estimated at only 75 aircraft. In comparison, the Harrier was far more successful and had many times in production numbers.

According to Indian sources, the MiG-29K was selected because Russian carriers tend to carry fewer aircraft (vs western counterparts), and the Indian navy wanted a smaller plane so they can carry more planes on the Admiral Gorshkov/Vikramaditya. The Indian MiG-29K variant is said to be lighter, smaller (when folded for storage), and more stealthy than the original Russian MiG-29K.

India only ordered 12 MiG-29K + 4 MiG-29KUB, but said they'd consider increasing the total number to 40 at later date. The estimated cost per aircraft is $32 million USD + $14.25 million USD each for training, support, parts, munitions, etc.

I was checking out the Vikramaditya it does not appear to have catapults. Could it in the future be fitted for catapults? that would be quite a re-fit.

India only ordered 12 MiG-29K + 4 MiG-29KUB, but said they'd consider increasing the total number to 40 at later date. The estimated cost per aircraft is $32 million USD + $14.25 million USD each for training, support, parts, munitions, etc.

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I like the Mig-29. It is perfect the size for CV operations. It can carry a variety of weapons but launching off the ski jump it's payload will be limited. But good enough for short attack ,patrol and air defense missions. But the number of aircraft purchashed is small. IMO more should be purchased for replacements and training....Hi-performance aircraft do crash.

Do any of the IN fans know if Vikramaditya will have any type of tanker aircraft? Is the Mig-29 cable of being a tanker..of sorts???

Here are some models of the Vikramaditya / Gorshkov. It would still be of limited utility as a carrier ( in the USN sense). 44,500 ton displacement and only carrying 1-2 squadrons of aircraft is not very good. I guess that is what you got to work with. The Gorshkov wasn't exactly designed as a "real" carrier.

IdonT I edited your pics to thumbnails to save bandwidth..
Guys please use thumbnails to post pics Thanks!! bd popeye moderator

The Vikramaditya is certainly large enough in displacement to carry more aircraft. BUT that hangar deck is to small. That's because of those VLS cells that don't appeared to be removed...Any of you IN fans that are reading this know why? I think it has to do with structural integreity of the ship..I'm no naval engineer so I really don't know.

bd popeye said:

The Vikramaditya is certainly large enough in displacement to carry more aircraft. BUT that hangar deck is to small. That's because of those VLS cells that don't appeared to be removed...Any of you IN fans that are reading this know why? I think it has to do with structural integreity of the ship..I'm no naval engineer so I really don't know.

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I believe the airwing will probably include 1 squadron of Mig 29 K, KA-31 AEW helos, and KA 28 ASW helo. As I said earlier, this carrier suffers from "not being designed to operate as a true carrier" syndrome. The Kievs were mainly designed to protect SSBN's in their bastion. It is mainly an ASW vessel. Most of its airwing were ASW helo's. The Yak 38 were there to chase away anti-sub aircraft like the P-3. Now this refit will work but there will be a lot of problems.

One example of this is the landing area. If you think trying to catch 4 wires on the Nimitz is tough, try doing it on the Vikramaditya using a smaller area with only 3 wires.

Second, is the lack of deck parking ~ relic of the Russian abhorance of such practice. That is why the Kuznetsov when at see always looks empty.

IDonT sez;

One example of this is the landing area. If you think trying to catch 4 wires on the Nimitz is tough, try doing it on the Vikramaditya using a smaller area with only 3 wires

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Believe it or not USN CV's often operate with only 3 arresting wires...sometimes one wire is undergoing maintainence. I've seen that myself many times. Also the new CVN-21 program CVN will have only three arresting wires...No matter the size a CV is tough to land on!

Second, is the lack of deck parking ~ relic of the Russian abhorance of such practice. That is why the Kuznetsov when at see always looks empty

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Yep..a Nimitz class has 4.5 acers of flight deck whereas most of the rest of the worlds flight decks are 2.5 acers or less..

I was under the impression the Kuznetzov's deck was usually empty because the Russians couldn't afford to buy enough SU-33s for her air group. She should be able to operate up to 50 aircraft but rarely deploys with more than 20. The original intention was for a mixed air group with both SU-33s and MIG-29Ks but with the collapse of the USSR the funds dried up and the Russian Navy had to make do with what it had, enough SU-33s for a sqn plus a few spares and a handful of SU-25 Frogfoots intended for close air support but now pressed into service as trainers. The MIG-29K hadn't gone into production yet so was abandoned by the Russians purely for lack of money. Now that the Indians have ordered the type and the production line has reopened (I know the land based Mig-29 is still in production, but as has been stated elsewhere on this forum, the 29K most probably has a strengthened airframe compared to the original) perhaps the Russians will be able to piggyback an order for themselves as India will be funding the completion of development work. This would lead to the Kuznetzov being able to deploy with something approahing her intended complement of aircraft, a sight I'm sure even Popeye would welcome!

The Yak-38 was operational, but was a deathtrap with an operational radius of just sixty miles! It was kept in service because the Soviets had nothing else to operate from the Kiev class and was mainly for 'show'. It's poor performance was a result of it's engine layout, one vectored thrust engine for forward flight (unlike the Harrier's Pegasus engine there were no forward 'cold' nozzles) and two vertically mounted lift engines behind the cockpit which were dead weight in forward flight and took up space that could have been better used to hold fuel. Take off weight was so marginal that it couldn't be fitted with even a simple radar so was of little value as a fighter and with a small wingspan had even less ability to carry munitions for use in the attack role. Not for nothing was it's NATO name 'Forger', as it was a crude forgery of the Harrier and very unconvincing too.

Oh, and on the subject of arrestor wires, the French Charles de Gaulle only has three wires fitted as does the CTOL variant of the CVF they will be building. But then you only have to catch one...

And here are a few more images of how the Vikramaditya will look, as well as the aircraft she will operate; the MIG-29K and the LCA(Navy).