Aircraft Carriers

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Obi Wan Russell

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Transitting around South America allows a lot of 'flag showing' to friendly states eg Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and for excercises with said nations' Navies and Air forces. Argentina for example, uses passing US CVs to keep it's Super Etendard pilots carrier qualified (although they also make use of the Brazilian Sao Poalo whenever possible) and this practice will most likely continue to reinforce the choice of route for CVNs as a little diplomacy goes a long way. The shrinking Arctic Ice Cap will one day make the Northwest Passage a reality, but not for some decades at the very least, if not more than a century. The environmentalists do tend to exaggerate the effects of global warming, so I wouldn't start planning to build a beach resort in Northern Canada just yet...
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Transitting around South America allows a lot of 'flag showing' to friendly states eg Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and for excercises with said nations' Navies and Air forces...The environmentalists do tend to exaggerate the effects of global warming, so I wouldn't start planning to build a beach resort in Northern Canada just yet...
When USS R. Reagan went from the E. Coast to San Diego, there were no port calls in S. America, so unless it's another Unitas exercise, "showing the flag" is a non-issue. Noone is talking about swimming in the Arctic in bikinis, even in summer! The USCG icebreakers could escort a CVN there; or a Russian nuclear powered icebreaker could be leased for the purpose. It comes down to cost-benefit analysis, but actualy the USN is already planning to patrol the Arctic as the ice cover shrinks! Eventualy a carrier will be sent there for real life deployment, and a transit could serve as a training one!

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The overall loss of ice appears to have accelerated over the past decade, raising the possibility that the Northwest Passage and the Northern Sea Route may become seasonally navigable on a regular basis in the coming decade.
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And China also has one-
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Yamal_July_2000.jpg
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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BLUEJACKET sez
When USS R. Reagan went from the E. Coast to San Diego, there were no port calls in S. America, so unless it's another Unitas exercise, "showing the flag" is a non-issue. No one is talking about swimming in the Arctic in bikinis, even in summer!

There were port calls in S. America when CVN-76 transited around S. America to San Diego CA. In fact they had three port calls.

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27May2004,
embarked CVW-11,
departed Norfolk to new homeport San Diego around the Cape Horn.
The partial air wing includes the following squadrons:
(NH)1xx VFA-41 "Black Aces" FA-18F,
(NH)2xx VFA-14 "Tophatters" FA-18E,
(NH)60x VAW-117 "Wallbangers" E-2C HE2K,
(NH)61x HS-6 "Indians" SH-60F/HH-60H,
(RW)xx VRC-30 DET. "Providers" C-2A
27May-03Jun2004, WestLant
04Jun-08Jun2004, SoLant
09Jun-12Jun2004, Rio De Janeiro
13Jun-21Jun2004, SoLant
22Jun-23Jun2004, SoPac
25Jun-29Jun2004, Valparaiso, Chile
30Jun-08Jul2004, Pac
09Jul-12Jul2004, Callao, Peru
13Jul-22Jul2004, Pac
23Jul2004, arrived at new homeport San Diego

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The USCG icebreakers could escort a CVN there; or a Russian nuclear powered icebreaker could be leased for the purpose.

Your kidding of course?? You must be. Never gonna happen. The USN would not make such a risky venture with a CVN. Icebreakers are too slow. Icebergs are a real danger to shipping. Get real...
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
OK, I hadn't verified my statement about port calls- I read it in UK "Warships" magazine. Are you telling me that they can't keep track/avoid icebergs like the Titanic? Then they aren't worth their salt if they sail in warm seas only!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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OK, I hadn't verified my statement about port calls- I read it in UK "Warships" magazine. Are you telling me that they can't keep track/avoid icebergs like the Titanic? Then they aren't worth their salt if they sail in warm seas only!

No I'm not. They are just dangerous. It's best to avoid them.

During NATO excersise "Strong Express" in the North Atlantic in September '72 I was onboard the JFK. We did see some tremendous icebergs. Huge in fact. Extra lookouts were posted....At that time the JFK was the largest warship ever to cross the Artic Circle.

Why take the risk when there is an established route? It also would be a slow transit because of the ice and slow speed of the ice breakers.

I wonder have the Russians ever operated the CV ADM"K" in the Artic??
 
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Gollevainen

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I wonder have the Russians ever operated the CV ADM"K" in the Artic??

What do you mean by that? The Kola penisula is all the way atop the arctic circle and Barents sea, white sea, petsora sea and Kara Sea where the Severnaja flota mainly operates are all parts of the arctic ocean...
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The Kola Peninsula was the destination for the Arctic convoys of WW2 so I think it's a safe bet that the Adm Kuznetzov has seen her fair share of icebergs 'up close and personal'. The Russians don't have much choice in the matter geographically, but the USN and other Navies do. You don't put high value units in harms way during peacetime without a damn good reason and the Northwest passage as a transit route for CVNs would be an unjustifiable risk. No carrier captain would risk it not least because if there was any accident his career would be finished. Just to save a few weeks transit time when in peacetime there isn't that much of a hurry? In wartime it would still be hard to justify the risk IMHO. It is physically possible, but unlikely in the forseeable future.
 

Sczepan

Senior Member
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Interesting video... wish I spoke Russian! I noticed the flight deck crew don't seem to use the colour coded jackets favoured by western crews (or at least they weren't much in evidence here). ...
yeah, the russions could lern alot by using western deck management.
May be Argentina or Brazil could teach something to the PLAN :china:
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
No I'm not. They are just dangerous. It's best to avoid them. ..
Why take the risk when there is an established route? It also would be a slow transit because of the ice and slow speed of the ice breakers.
I wonder have the Russians ever operated the CV ADM"K" in the Artic??
-TRUE! BUT THERE IS A LATIN PROVERB: IT'S NECESSARY TO SAIL THE SEA. IF THEY DON'T TRAIN FOR IT LIKE THE SUBMARINERS DO, HOW SAFE THEY'LL BE WHEN THEY DO GO THERE?
With helos & sattelites it would not be that hard to choose the best route through the icefields-
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The NW passageoffers the shortest route and reduces the transit from 17500 nm around CapeHorn and 11600 nm through the Panama Canal to 8700 nm.
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CV ADM"K" homeport, Murmansk is ABOVE the Arctic Circle!
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I'm sure if they needed to get her to the Pac. in a hurry (except in winter) she would use the Northern Sea route!
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It is the shortest line between the ports of Western Europe, Russia, the Far East, and South East Asia.
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I confused USS Reagan with USS Nimitz about that transit-
Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, November 3, 2001 — USS Nimitz (CVN-68) passes by the Arizona Memorial as Sailors spell out "FREEDOM" and man the rails of the ship as she pulls into Pearl Harbor for a liberty visit. The stop was the first port call for Nimitz following a transit around South America while on the way to her homeport of San Diego, Calif.
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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In the Chinese Cv thread BLUEJACKET posted this;
By the way, the USS Midway was originaly designed as a battleship, but was converted to CV that recieved many modifications while in service.

I told him this was not true. Just an old sailors tale based on the original designation of the ship as a CVB. The B stood for big. Not Battle as some sources point out. The hull of the Midway class was based on the never built Montana class Battleship. The hull is not an actual BB hull. Hence the confusion.

The following link is from a modeling site but it has the most information on the Midway class I could find.

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However, the USN still wanted fleet carriers with armored decks but any new design would still have to be capable of a speed of 32 knots. Nothing increases the displacement of a ship’s design like the requirement for high speed. To allow sufficient space for the machinery plant required to propel an armored fleet carrier at a speed of at least 32 knots would require a huge leap in displacement and size over the ships of the Essex class. There were very few yards capable of building ships of the great size needed for contemplated armored deck fleet carrier. The USN was planning on building a new battleship design of the Montana class but with the start of the war and the concurrent decrease in the role of the battleship with increase in the role of the carrier, the Montanas went to the back burner. The yards slated to build the Montanas could be tasked with building the new carrier design instead. Not all of the large yards could be engaged in building new carriers, as the navy still needed to keep some of the largest dry docks available for repair of damaged warships. However, on August 7, 1942, two days before the invasion of Guadacanal and Tulagi, the first armored deck giant was ordered at Newport News and was designated CVB-41. The name selected for the new behemoth was USS Midway, selected in October 1944, after the over whelming carrier victory that had occurred only two months before the order for the ship. The name Coral Sea was chosen for CVB-43 in September 1944 and CVB-42 was not named until April 29, 1945, when she was named Franklin D. Roosevelt after the President who had died on April 12, 1945.

On January 21, 1943 the second of the class was ordered from the Brooklyn Navy Yard. On June 14, 1943 two more carriers were ordered, as CVB-43 and CVB-44 were ordered from Newport News . To free up space in the large docks for this construction and for repair of war damage, the Montana class battleships were finally dropped on July 21, 1943. The USN forecast two more CVBs for 1945 construction plans, CVB-56 and CVB-57, for a total of six of the new design. The CVB-44 order was cancelled at the end of 1943, when it was realized that this new design would take some time to build. CVB-56 and CVB-57 were cancelled on March 27, 1945. Although this very large, complex design, took longer to build than an Essex , Midway and FDR still finished in a comparatively fast period of time. Midway was laid down on October 27, 1943 and commissioned on September 10, 1945 and FDR was laid down on December 1, 1943 and commissioned on October 27, 1945. The Coral Sea was the last of the three to be laid down on July 10, 1944. With the end of the war construction on her slowed to a peace time tempo and she did not go into commission until October 1, 1947.

Edit...

The large size of the hull created a very large hangar and these ships could pack a huge air group when completed. Different loads were calculated depending upon the mix of aircraft carried. One variant was 97 F4U Corsairs and 48 SB2C Helldivers for a total of 145. Another later load called for 27 F8F Bearcats, 32 twin engined F7F Tigercats and 73 F4U Corsairs for a total of 132. Carrying only twin engined F7Fs, she still could pack 82 of these large aircraft into the hangar. Maximum load of single piston aircraft was calculated at 153. The hangar was 764 feet long and at its narrowest at the stack trunking, 92 feet wide. The flight deck was 932 feet in length and 113 feet in width, except it narrowed to 107 feet at the island. Because of its width it was thought capable of landing two aircraft at once but this certainly would have been a desperation measure

If any of you CV fans care to add anything to that feel free!
 
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