Aircraft Carriers III

I have been aware of the issue of needing to build classified space to accommodate the ISR data that are vacuumed by the F-35 sensors. It was in the context of coalition AOC where not all countries or personnel have access to certain classified materials. Essentially the ISR results within the F-35, or at least a portion of it, is classified at high level and compartmentalised for security reasons, both within and among nations. This also pertains to specific F-35-derived ISR results. Hence, sharing this information outside the F-35 environment to support Air C2 – ISR integration will face security classification restraints or could, in some cases, even be prohibited outside a Special Access Program Facility (SAPF) or Secret Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF). I would suspect the carriers would have to build SAPE or SCIF like facility. Operationally it will be a bigger problem. In order to safeguard information security, consideration must be given in creation of any gateway, cross security domain solution or relay solution that facilitates sharing F-35 originated ISR results. This in turn may be in direct conflict with the need to the real-time distribution of ISR results and sharing of situational awareness within a coalition AOC and other units to support enhancing Air C2 – ISR integration.
even if it was true what you described (and I wouldn't know if it was, or wasn't, true),

how came those "classified spaces" had not been set up from the beginning?

for years I've been hearing how the Fords operating F-35Cs should be revolutionary transformation quantum-leap game-changers, and now what:
 
Aug 16, 2018
Aug 3, 2018
and
Navy, Civilian Nuclear Regulators Struggling Over How to Dismantle Former USS Enterprise
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so
This is how the Navy plans to break the Big E
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Enterprise, the world’s first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, could become the first Navy vessel of its kind to be scrapped by a commercial breaker — if the Pentagon gets its way.

Last week the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard pointed to a
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that outlines
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to finally dispose of the Big E, a warship that faithfully served the fleet for 51 years before it was deactivated in 2012.

Five years and $750 million later, workers had siphoned out the flattop’s nuclear fuel and the Navy
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it. Now it’s just a rusting hulk tied up at the
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The four proposals include:
  • Partially dismantling the carrier at a commercial breaker by removing all parts of the ship except the nuclear reactor compartments, which will be transported to the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard & Intermediate Maintenance Facility in Bremerton, Washington. After processing the parts will be chopped into eight sections and shipped again to the U.S. Department of Energy’s
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    for disposal.
  • Following the same plan, except for packaging the reactor compartments into four sections for shipment to Hanford. Each package would contain two of the ship’s reactor plants.
  • Dismantling the carrier at commercial shipyards, including cutting apart the eight reactor plants into several hundred small containers for disposal at established Department of Energy or licensed commercial waste facilities in Washington, Utah, Texas or South Carolina.
  • Doing nothing. The Enterprise would be mothballed at an unnamed shipyard with "periodic maintenance to ensure storage continues in a safe and environmentally responsible manner.”
Last fall, the Navy contracted with the Huntington Ingalls Newport News shipyard, agreeing to pay
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for stowage and upkeep of the vessel over the next three years.

A
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by the Government Accountability Office estimated it could cost between $1 billion and $1.5 billion to dispose of the Enterprise at the Puget Sound shipyard.

Due to work backlogs, that also would take about least 15 years.

GAO pegged the price tag for breaking the Big E at between $750 million and $1.4 billion if completed by commercial scrappers, and it could be completed in the next decade.

In 2016, the Navy asked contractors to submit
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but the effort was halted a year later due to a scuffle with the
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over which agency had the legal authority to oversee reactor work in the private sector.

Although Navy officials remain mum on the spat, the differences appear to be sorted out and the process is moving forward.

“The Navy will examine a range of options for overseeing compliance with applicable federal laws,” said Puget Sound Shipyard spokesman J.C. Mathews.

"We are at the early stages of this process, and we are not ready to discuss the regulatory structure at this time."

Those details, he said, will be spelled out when a final impact statement is published in “early 2021,” although the timetable could change.

Over the decades, the Navy at Puget Sound has safely packed and shipped to Hanford 133 military reactor compartments pulled from 124 nuclear vessels, Mathews said.

GAO noted that civilian contractors also have disposed of 32 commercial reactors.

The proposals don’t specify potential commercial breakers, only locations in Newport News
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.

Officials are planning public meetings to discuss the proposals in both communities, plus Bremerton.

The first two options the Navy is considering begin with the same process.

The Enterprise would be dry-docked and then split into three sections, isolating the middle “propulsion spaces” holding the reactors.

That section would be stripped of the ship’s island, flight deck and any other spaces above the hanger deck.

What’s left would be sealed up and towed around South America to Puget Sound.

That’s because at nearly 133 feet long at the waterline, the towed propulsion section section is too large for the Panama Canal.

The widest ships to make that transit were the Navy’s four Iowa-class battleships, which passed through the canal with six inches to spare on each side, Mathews said.

It’s much easier to store or scrap non-nuclear warships.

It costs the Navy roughly $200,000 to mothball a non-nuclear carrier every year, according to Naval Sea Systems Command.

But officials have expedited their removal. Between 2014 and 2017, the Navy sent the carriers
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,
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and
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to breakers. And the service plans the same fate for the carriers Kitty Hawk and John F. Kennedy, the only two ex-flattops still managed by the Navy.

Officials have been shopping the ex-Kitty Hawk to scrappers since late 2017, with no takers.

In 2017, the Navy also removed the former flattop John F. Kennedy from the museum ship donation list and earmarked it for “disposal by dismantling.”

In its 2018 report, GAO investigators urged the Navy to find alternatives to expensive nuclear scrapping options because the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers are beginning to reach retirement age, too.

Nimitz is expected to end its service life in 2025, followed by the Dwight D. Eisenhower in 2027, according to the Naval Sea Systems Command.

The good news is that these warships have two-reactor nuclear propulsion plants, which makes them easier to scrap than the Big E.

Puget Sound’s Mathews told Navy Times that “dry dock space for ship dismantlement” comes on a space available basis when not needed for “other mission requirements,” such as keeping warships operating for the fleet.

“Recycling work is currently underway on three submarines,” Mathews said. “Generally speaking, though, in recent years we average shipping two reactor compartments to the Hanford Site for disposal annually.”

He said 14 vessels are at the yard awaiting dismantling and more are expected to arrive as other ships are deactivated.

By law, however, nuclear-powered warships can’t be officially decommissioned until their reactors are drained of heavy water and their radioactive cores are removed and stored.
 

Brumby

Major
even if it was true what you described (and I wouldn't know if it was, or wasn't, true),

how came those "classified spaces" had not been set up from the beginning?

for years I've been hearing how the Fords operating F-35Cs should be revolutionary transformation quantum-leap game-changers, and now what:
I would not know how to answer your question because I don't work for the USN. The only reason I became aware of the classified compartmentalisation issue is because a year ago i read a document written by a person who actually worked in the F-35 JPO and this issue was brought up in that document. The point is the F-35 is bringing significant changes within its eco system. Some can be anticipated and some gets developed as the services get a better handle on how the F-35 is impacting operations in a totally different kind of way.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I'm still scratching my head over this F-35C aboard a Nimitz class because I remember this article.

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So I assume that CVN-72 is only partial mission capable with the F-35C.?..jeez.:confused:. Well there are plenty of large spaces, former berthing, aboard Nimitz class ships sitting empty because of a reduced air-wing....So lets get it together Navy. I got a couple of dollar I could give you...:rolleyes:
 
I would not know how to answer your question because I don't work for the USN. The only reason I became aware of the classified compartmentalisation issue is because a year ago i read a document written by a person who actually worked in the F-35 JPO and this issue was brought up in that document. The point is the F-35 is bringing significant changes within its eco system. Some can be anticipated and some gets developed as the services get a better handle on how the F-35 is impacting operations in a totally different kind of way.
I'm not interested in some newspeak like your "eco system",

I'm curious if only now they realized the ship (commissioned almost two years ago) would need changes to be able actually operate F-35Cs (their IOC already declared),

or if the Pentagon tries to fool every body following the Ford and F-35 Programs
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
It’s a matter of need.
Although F35C has had IOC that just means in a absolute emergency they could be fleet deployed.
When Ford was floated the Navy was centered on F/A18E and F. Today it’s centered on F/A18E and F. Tomorrow it will be centered on F/A18E and F. In 2021 the navy plans to introduce F35C to the fleet. If they installed it now it wouldn’t be used.

They could use the blast deflectors but what would be the use of the other changes?

Congress wants the JFK ready to launch F35C on commission in 2024. Which makes sense as then the Navy will have them in the fleet. But Ford? Why install just to sit and wait?
 

Brumby

Major
I'm not interested in some newspeak like your "eco system",

I'm curious if only now they realized the ship (commissioned almost two years ago) would need changes to be able actually operate F-35Cs (their IOC already declared),

or if the Pentagon tries to fool every body following the Ford and F-35 Programs

I suggest you write to the USN Secretary to demand an answer and be sure to share it when you get one.

In my assessment. there are two big issues :
(1)Whether it is even feasible to compartmentalise given the free flowing nature of the ISR data. Building a facility to house the data is the least of the problem.
(2)A much bigger problem is the no where in sight solution to the EMAL issue and following that the elevator problem.
 
I suggest you write to the USN Secretary to demand an answer and be sure to share it when you get one.

In my assessment. there are two big issues :
(1)Whether it is even feasible to compartmentalise given the free flowing nature of the ISR data. Building a facility to house the data is the least of the problem.
(2)A much bigger problem is the no where in sight solution to the EMAL issue and following that the elevator problem.
I was thinking about the situation and my conjecture is this:

if the USN knew about serious issues of the Ford Project,

now (2019) it'd be the time to concede to them and notify the Congress (so that they can "rebaseline" I mean extra money in FY21);

if the USN just covered up serious issues now, and this is what I suspect is going on,

the Fords would be left to their fate as the Zumwalts
 
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