Aircraft Carriers III

They might never operate them; the point is they reserve the right and have the realistic capability to do so in response to China's escalation of the threat level (through deploying carrier strike groups) in the region. In the meantime they can maintain their 'peaceful and defensive only' posture and portray the Chinese as the aggressors.
I must have an English language issue: if "they might never operate them", what on Earth is "the realistic capability" supposed to mean in the same sentence?!

I don't attempt to distort what you're saying, just it's above me what you meant Today at 2:47 PM
by the sentence:
It's all about 'Face' in that part of the world...
did you perhaps mean bluffing??
or are you perhaps so confident in F-35Bs to think a CVGB could be deterred by their presence on a Japanese DDH??

maybe it's better to leave it, for me, you know, seeing is believing
lifting one copy at a realistic sea state should be a good start LOL May 15, 2015
... I've read (in a Czech military journal) the width of the elevators on Japanese Helicopter Destroyers is 10.9 m, while the F-35B wingspan is 35 feet ... now I have to convert it :) 35ft= 10.66800m ... a tight fit
 

Janiz

Senior Member
I think that Japanese government is slowly accustoming the Japanese public eye that it will produce aircraft carriers in one way or another. They're good at it and US approves this move already while PRC is helping a lot themselves for the move. How fast you can expect Izumo class carriers turned into 'Cavour's? I would say that the earliest date would be 2022/23. We'll just have to wait for the next 5-year plan and see if it's there in any form.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
I must have an English language issue: if "they might never operate them", what on Earth is "the realistic capability" supposed to mean in the same sentence?!

I don't attempt to distort what you're saying, just it's above me what you meant Today at 2:47 PM
by the sentence:

did you perhaps mean bluffing??
or are you perhaps so confident in F-35Bs to think a CVGB could be deterred by their presence on a Japanese DDH??

maybe it's better to leave it, for me, you know, seeing is believing
lifting one copy at a realistic sea state should be a good start LOL May 15, 2015
It's about deterrence. Right now the Japanese flat tops are defensive in posture by virtue of only operating ASW Helos. By letting it be known that the option to alter the ships' mission and capability to include F-35Bs was included in the original design brief, they let China know they can counter any aggressive via the new PLAN Carrier Strike Groups. The Japanese could have the first carrier upgraded for such ops in under a year and expedite sufficient deliveries of F-35Bs in a slightly longer period, much quicker at any rate than China could build another carrier (third? fourth etc) from scratch. At this point Japan could overtake China in numbers of carriers with combat aircraft embarked in just a few short year,- because the ships are already built. It's quicker to convert a ship already designed for the role than to build from scratch, and though the Chinese ships are bigger and can carry numerically more aircraft, that too would work in Japan's favour as their ships would still be justifiably described as 'defensive' and not 'offensive' weapons, and so not in breach of Japan's constitution.Izumo .jpg CV16_22.jpg 121636kn889m6rr69qr8qr.jpg
 

hkbc

Junior Member
To convert the vessel for fast jet operation looking at ripping up the deck, fitting jet blast deflectors, a ski jump, reinforcing and insulating the landing spots for the jets, new tie down spots for the deck park, refitting the workshops, re-ballasting because a couple of hundred extra tons just been added to the nose then some sea trials, that's assuming the existing fuel lines, avgas tankage, munitions stores and ammo lifts are already sized and sited appropriately and don't need any re-work. Unless it's all scheduled in and the parts ordered (pretty sure JBDs aren't available off the shelf and the guys at Screwfix (other DIY outlets available) would be a little bemused if someone popped in with an order for 40,000L of thermal 'paint' :) ) it's going to take a wee while. To provide some context, HMS illustrious's mid 2003 refit in Rosyth which involved a total rebuild of the ski jump and reconfiguring the ship so that it can be more quickly switched between acting as a light aircraft carrier and helicopter carrier, took 18 months and that was planned. Then there's the small matter of who's going to give up their production slots to let the Japanese jump the queue and have some F35Bs that they haven't yet ordered!

Joking aside it's nothing insurmountable, but even if the ships were designed with Jets in mind you are still looking at needing a huge amount of goodwill all round for it to happen quickly from a standing start. So I think its more re-assurance for a domestic Japanese audience then out and out deterrence against the Chinese as it's really not that credible, right now once they have something they like, the Chinese seem to just churn out ships like the proverbial sausage machine so you'd be foolhardy to engage them in a race if you didn't have to!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
To convert the vessel for fast jet operation looking at ripping up the deck, fitting jet blast deflectors, a ski jump, reinforcing and insulating the landing spots for the jets, new tie down spots for the deck park, refitting the workshops, re-ballasting because a couple of hundred extra tons just been added to the nose then some sea trials, that's assuming the existing fuel lines, avgas tankage, munitions stores and ammo lifts are already sized and sited appropriately and don't need any re-work.
A STOVL conversion would reduce part of that. The Tie downs, the Fuel lines, The ammo and elevators would be needed as well as changes to stores and balast these days is pretty much computerized anyway. you can skip on the Ski ramp and blast deflectors. The Deck heat treat would be needed but then again Japan already has V22 Osprey on order and those demand the deck heat treat already.
Then there's the small matter of who's going to give up their production slots to let the Japanese jump the queue and have some F35Bs that they haven't yet ordered!
Japan already has a open F35A line for there order. Assembly could happen in Japan modifying the and using the F35 line there as the Road map.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Basically it's not going to happen overnight. but I suspect to happen sooner than many think.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
A STOVL conversion would reduce part of that. The Tie downs, the Fuel lines, The ammo and elevators would be needed as well as changes to stores and balast these days is pretty much computerized anyway. you can skip on the Ski ramp and blast deflectors. The Deck heat treat would be needed but then again Japan already has V22 Osprey on order and those demand the deck heat treat already.

Japan already has a open F35A line for there order. Assembly could happen in Japan modifying the and using the F35 line there as the Road map.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Basically it's not going to happen overnight. but I suspect to happen sooner than many think.

Yep, its already happening, China's aggressive moves in the SCS and ECS will "build a fire" under the Japanese,, they have a very thin layer of "insulation", it will burn through very quickly once the Japanese realize they are at the top of somebody's "wish list"..

I would be willing to bet that the USMC will "cross deck" with the Japanese on the F-35 Bravo's, and if Japan wishes to begin buying and building F-35B's, LockMart has a great revolving finance plan...
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
To convert the vessel for fast jet operation looking at ripping up the deck,
The Deck wouldn't require any major structural work, they have admitted it was designed with a long term view to possible F-35B ops.
fitting jet blast deflectors,
Not required for the 'B. The Wasp class don't have them, neither do the QECs.
a ski jump,
Which is a simple steel structure with no moving parts which, granted weighs a couple of hundred tonnes;
reinforcing and insulating the landing spots for the jets,
Yes but this isn't a huge task,
new tie down spots for the deck park,
There are plenty of tie down spots already. Helicopters use them too.
refitting the workshops,
Re equipping the existing workshops would be more accurate. They are already designed to service modern gas turbine powered aircraft with advanced avionics. It would just be a new type to add to the inventory.
re-ballasting because a couple of hundred extra tons just been added to the nose then some sea trials,
Yes but again not a difficult task. Warships go through that every time they come out of refit.
that's assuming the existing fuel lines, avgas tankage, munitions stores and ammo lifts are already sized and sited appropriately and don't need any re-work.
The F-35Bs use the same fuel and the same fuel connections as other naval and military aircraft. The Japanese have admitted this was planned from the start
Unless it's all scheduled in and the parts ordered (pretty sure JBDs aren't available off the shelf and the guys at Screwfix (other DIY outlets available) would be a little bemused if someone popped in with an order for 40,000L of thermal 'paint' :) ) it's going to take a wee while. To provide some context, HMS illustrious's mid 2003 refit in Rosyth which involved a total rebuild of the ski jump and reconfiguring the ship so that it can be more quickly switched between acting as a light aircraft carrier and helicopter carrier, took 18 months and that was planned.
Yes the ski jump was rebuilt, in part to improve accommodation available (yes there were quite a few bunks in there). Yje magazine alterations were mainly to provide secure racking for infantry weapons as an alternative fit to her usual load of Sidewinders, AMRAAMs, Depth Charges and Torpedoes. She could switch between either role at short notice. She was also having an overhaul of most of her systems as well (propulsion, radars, communications, hotel services etc) hence the length of her refit. 18 months is actually fairly average for a refit on that scale.
Then there's the small matter of who's going to give up their production slots to let the Japanese jump the queue and have some F35Bs that they haven't yet ordered!
Japan has slots booked. They could switch some of the orders from As to Bs given sufficient lead in time.

Joking aside it's nothing insurmountable, but even if the ships were designed with Jets in mind you are still looking at needing a huge amount of goodwill all round for it to happen quickly from a standing start. So I think its more re-assurance for a domestic Japanese audience then out and out deterrence against the Chinese as it's really not that credible, right now once they have something they like, the Chinese seem to just churn out ships like the proverbial sausage machine so you'd be foolhardy to engage them in a race if you didn't have to!
My point being Japan is already in this race with a 'get out of Jail free' card up their sleeve. They are already looking th Chinese in the eyes and saying "If you try to use your carriers with Soviet era junk on their decks to dominate the region, we will deploy fifth gen jets from our flat tops and your great investment will just be target practice." until then they can maintain their virtuous 'defensive' posture and retain the moral high ground.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Japan "may" upgrade all of its four Helicopter Carriers and can boast of having more Carriers in operation than China. They may do that faster than China could field four aircraft carriers. However, to fill those carriers with F-35s, it would take them a substantial amount of time. Not to mention their test & evaluation before they are actually put into active service. By the time Japan is done upgrading it's helicopter destroyers to be able to launch F-35s, and then wait for the F-35s to be delivered, and finally be fully operational. China would have already fielded 3 aircraft carriers, including CV-002. With the range, capacity and firepower of China's two CATOBARs and two STOVLs. China would actually be in the lead, rather than lagging behind. The only question mark is whether China plans to field Stealth Aircraft on its CATOBAR Carriers.
 
as I said Yesterday at 7:15 AM it's FANBOISH BUNK to talk F-35B operating off of the Izumos/Hyugas, and since then I saw nothing posted which would show F-35Bs were coming to those vessels, just people kidding themselves with what might happen LOL

on let's say strategic level, Brother:
Yep, its already happening, China's aggressive moves in the SCS and ECS will "build a fire" under the Japanese,, they have a very thin layer of "insulation", it will burn through very quickly once the Japanese realize they are at the top of somebody's "wish list"..

I would be willing to bet that the USMC will "cross deck" with the Japanese on the F-35 Bravo's, and if Japan wishes to begin buying and building F-35B's, LockMart has a great revolving finance plan...
as far as I know, there's USN CSG permanently stationed in Yokosuka, so I think the Japanese, instead of going for some their "pocket carriers", should just leave
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and Opfor CVGBs to the USN to handle;

I'm done with 'Japanese aircraft carriers' here (until I see there's going to be such a thing, by the way this would mean I was wrong hahaha)
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Japan already has a open F35A line for there order. Assembly could happen in Japan modifying the and using the F35 line there as the Road map.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Basically it's not going to happen overnight. but I suspect to happen sooner than many think.

Does no one fact check here! It's the small matter of A F35A isn't a F35B, someone has to supply you the lift fan system and all the bits that are different, pretty sure Rolls Royce doesn't have them sitting around! you can probably fly a F35A off a ship just don't try landing one!
 
Top