Aircraft Carriers III

SouthernSky said:

Thanks Jeff.

I wasn't aware the USMC were getting F-35C's. What is the rationale behind that?

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The US Marines have always had fixed wing, carrier based aircraft. US Carriers also give ground support to the US Marines.

The US Maines currently have F/A-18s and had EA-6Bs which fly off of US carriers to support US Navy and US Marine missions.

They will continue that with the F-35Cs.

I understand that Jeff.

My question is why, when the USN has the assets to provide the same?

F-35B's supporting Marine operations is one thing. Why the F-35C's?

SouthernSky said:

I understand that Jeff.

My question is why, when the USN has the assets to provide the same?

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Because her US military forces use that balance to do several things.

1) To ensure that Marine pilots are full trained and available for such missions. If a need for Marine air support comes up and they need those types of assets, US marine pilots who understand more fully the Marine ground forces, will respond from the carrier.

2) The tradition involved is something that (for the above reason and others) is something that is not likely to be changed in the near future. There is simply a tactical investment, a traditional investment, and a monetary investment that will all tend to keep it that way.

I guess things are done differently across the Pacific Jeff.

Neither of those reasons would wash on this side though!

SouthernSky said:

I guess things are done differently across the Pacific Jeff.

Neither of those reasons would wash on this side though!

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Well, you have to look at it from a long term perspective and what has made it how it is.

The US Marines flying combat support for US Marines off of US carriers is a good thing. Good for the Marines, and good for Joint Operations.

Not everyone has the opportunity, or the history to do such things. The US does, and has made the most of it.

Correct you are Jeff. And no country has more gratitude than my own for the efforts of the USMC. Marines flying fixed wing off carriers is something I'd like to see continue. I just struggle to see why the Marines need to fly two different variants of the same aircraft off two different carriers, both driven by two different services no doubt.

Hi Southern Sky,
I think you will find that the USMC have no ships of their own. They are a bit like the Royal Marines as they are a Corps. But have their own Pilots that serve in on carriers both CVs and LHPs. I know that they train together. I also know that we had a Royal Marine Harrier Pilot a few years back when we had Harriers looking forward to F35Bs, on our CVs and also looking forward to USMC training on QE Class CVs and maybe a few Royal Marines pilots.
regarding Flat tops for sale maybe the Royal Navy could acquire one of them going cheep as a replacement for Ocean?
but have a feeling that the new CVs will replace her..

Under current plans HMS Ocean will be replaced by the QEC carriers, which are large enough to operate as CVs and LPHs at the same time. If there was a serious requirement for the RN to retain a separate LPH capability it would be far cheaper to give Ocean a SLEP refit and keep her running for another fifteen years.

We won't be buying either of the surplus French Mistrals for the same reason the other nations mentioned previously won't want them,- it would not be politically acceptable to deny such a large order to your own shipbuilding industry.

I'll jump in here

Obi Wan Russell said:

Under current plans HMS Ocean will be replaced by the QEC carriers, which are large enough to operate as CVs and LPHs at the same time. If there was a serious requirement for the RN to retain a separate LPH capability it would be far cheaper to give Ocean a SLEP refit and keep her running for another fifteen years.

We won't be buying either of the surplus French Mistrals for the same reason the other nations mentioned previously won't want them,- it would not be politically acceptable to deny such a large order to your own shipbuilding industry.

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with this quote:

The ships which have excellent aviation facilities as well as a floodable dock for landing craft would make superb replacements for HMS Ocean, Albion & Bulwark. If this government understood the true value of amphibious capability, they could abandon the flawed and quite desperate plan to make the QE aircraft carriers double as assault ships and buy the Mistrals.

However, this is very unlikely to happen because:

1. Even with the small uplift in defence spending announced in the recent budget, there is no spare money in the long term defence plan to fund such a significant purchase. With other pressing priorities this is unlikely to be addressed in the forthcoming defence review.
2. The RN is desperately short of manpower. HMS Ocean will go out of service in 2018. To man HMS Queen Elizabeth and eventually HMS Prince of Wales will already stretch available manpower. To crew two Mistrals, even with HMS Albion and Bulwark gone, would require a major recruitment effort which would take time (and additional funding) to deliver sufficient trained personnel.
3. The Mistrals are not fully compatible with RN requirements as they are fitted with Russian & French systems. They would need expensive re-fitting with RN standard equipment.
4. From a political perspective it would be seen as embarrassing to buy warships from Europe and the French, of all people (even though they are now our new best friends / close ally). Apart from a couple of oddities in WWII, the only French-built warships that have ever served in the Royal Navy were ones taken as prizes during numerous defeats the RN inflicted on them at sea.
5. There would be the usual, if utterly misguided backlash about loss of British jobs by not building warships in the UK and “buying foreign”. (The ships are already built and there is no capacity to build them in the UK at present anyway)
6. There is already interest from other nations who are keen to obtain such ships and are hoping to get them at a bargain price. The Britsh Government and MoD would probably have to move quickly and decisively (cough) to secure them in competition with others.

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from

Hi Jura,
I totally agree with you regarding Amphibious role for the QE class they are trying to go back to the HMS Hermes early 1980s, The RN where supposed to get Two Oceans but lack of funds again or cost cutting.
going forward the RN is counting itself lucky that they are getting two CVs as large as they are.