Aircraft Carriers III

Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Air Force Brat said:
I don't know Master? cause it comes in a can??? and yes, I did wonder why the Ford was costing so much?? hummmm?
Click to expand...
BEcause it is setting so many new frontiers.

Of course, as with all major projects there is also bureaucratic nonsense.

But the main reason is that she is a completely new design with completely new high tech features.

New, much more powerful reactors.

New much higher capability radar.

New, electromagnetic catapults.

New electromagnetic arrestor system.

New island.

Completely new internals and berthing.

Built for railguns and lasers.

New maintenance schedules that require less RCOH and other expensive maintenance.

etc.

All of that is expensive.

But she will pay back too. Requiring over 1000 fewer personnel, over her fifty year life she will be as cheap as, if not cheaper than a Nimitz class, mnot to mention the lessening cost of maintenance.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
LOL I had to play some add to get the article déblocable
Hervé Guillou: «Grâce au contrat en Australie, les gens sont redevenus fiers d’appartenir à DCNS»
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

anyway, here's google translation of
Vous évoquez la construction d’un porte-avions. Quid du prochain?

DCNS n’a pas à se prononcer sur les choix fondamentaux, mais il nous appartient de les éclairer. L’essentiel est que nous restions compétents pour savoir en construire un. Nous avons 400 compétences chez DCNS, dont 30 sont « orphelines », c’est-à-dire qu’elles n’ont aucune autre application dans le civil ou à l’exportation. Deux d’entre elles sont critiques : la propulsion nucléaire et les installations aviation. Nous devons donc conserver un flux minimal d’études pour conserver ces compétences. Ainsi, nous avons 18 personnes spécialisées sur les catapultes, dont plusieurs partiront bientôt à la retraite. Plus tôt la décision de lancer un nouveau porte-avions sera prise, plus ce sera facile de le construire rapidement et à un coût acceptable. Restera à trancher sur les grands choix d’architectures, notamment les systèmes de catapultes, la propulsion ou la capacité à mettre en œuvre des drones.
Click to expand...
:
"You talk about the construction of an aircraft carrier. What about the next?

DCNS does not have to decide on the fundamental choices, but it is up to us to enlighten them. The key is that we remain competent to know how to build one. We have 400 skills at DCNS, of which 30 are "orphans", that is to say they have no other application in civil or export. Two of them are critical: nuclear propulsion and aviation facilities. We therefore need to maintain a minimum stream of studies to retain these skills. Thus, we have 18 people specialized in catapults, many of whom will soon retire. The earlier the decision to launch a new carrier will be made, the easier it will be to build it quickly and at an acceptable cost. Will remain to decide on the great choices of architectures, notably the systems of catapults, the propulsion or the capacity to implement drones."

and here's EDIT an older graphics from the source
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

where I read the Russian translation:
4190594_original.jpg
 
Last edited:
Obi Wan Russell

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
FORBIN said:
"frosty cold"
? o_O

For some reasons mainly money but damage UK didn't build CATOBAR able to host US embarked fighters and Rafale.
Click to expand...
It was a simple choice really, the budget was fixed and not going to get any bigger, and therefore we could either afford one CTOL Carrier or two STOVL Carriers. As both variants would operate essentially the same aircraft type in terms of combat capability, the advantages of having two ships available over just one more than outweigh any benefit derived from going 'cat and trap'. I'm personally a big fan of cat and trap, but I'd still rather have two carriers than one. As the French have found, when your single carrier is in dockyard hands for a refit, you have no carrier capability at all.cvf-oct04 ctola.JPG carrier5_20090707171804.jpg
 
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Obi Wan Russell said:
It was a simple choice really, the budget was fixed and not going to get any bigger, and therefore we could either afford one CTOL Carrier or two STOVL Carriers. As both variants would operate essentially the same aircraft type in terms of combat capability, the advantages of having two ships available over just one more than outweigh any benefit derived from going 'cat and trap'. I'm personally a big fan of cat and trap, but I'd still rather have two carriers than one. As the French have found, when your single carrier is in dockyard hands for a refit, you have no carrier capability at all.View attachment 38565 View attachment 38564
Click to expand...
Completely agree just for mentioned this would have been the ideal solution :)
 
M

mattd

New Member
Registered Member
Obi Wan Russell said:
It was a simple choice really, the budget was fixed and not going to get any bigger, and therefore we could either afford one CTOL Carrier or two STOVL Carriers. As both variants would operate essentially the same aircraft type in terms of combat capability, the advantages of having two ships available over just one more than outweigh any benefit derived from going 'cat and trap'. I'm personally a big fan of cat and trap, but I'd still rather have two carriers than one. As the French have found, when your single carrier is in dockyard hands for a refit, you have no carrier capability at all.View attachment 38565 View attachment 38564
Click to expand...
As i like to say two are all way better then one, i am sure thats a pop song?
Former work collauge of mine husband worked for BAE- Thales in the Dock yard an Portsmouth before they both had to reloctae and move up to Scotland for him to oversee the end build of both ships.He told me, he was one of the main lead architects for the arrester gaer for the QE class, (they and i mean BAE were not ready to addd in all of these features as it was in the the main design. As the saying goes Built for? but our Gov at the time.of main gate whent for Short Take OFF Jump JET version, he said to me that it is all built into the ship design, and all the plans have been archived for the future.plus when we were in parnership with out good friends accross the channel, he was also the archetect who made improvements to the anchors American style for fuel saving.you have got to love that, machine of war.
Also he mentioned about the Emals, BAE know the cost of them as our freinds accross the pond offered them to HM Gov at a fixed price GOOD Price By one get one free, HM Gov got a bit worried by the cost of halting the programme cutting open the ships agin, also inserting non- proven tech. could take some time... How long is a peice of string?
Remember back in the day 1950s when the RN tried to modernise war time aircraft carrier HMS Victorious original estmate was one year, then came along angle deck, steam cats, mirror landing sight, new 3D Radar, then at the end oh no the steam boilers and engines are not going to last into the 1980s LOL So i know what shall we do lets open her up again and replace them. in the end i think it was about three years, and we spent back in the day £50 MIl Pounds when they were worth something.
 
M

mattd

New Member
Registered Member
Jeff Head said:
BEcause it is setting so many new frontiers.

Of course, as with all major projects there is also bureaucratic nonsense.

But the main reason is that she is a completely new design with completely new high tech features.

New, much more powerful reactors.

New much higher capability radar.

New, electromagnetic catapults.

New electromagnetic arrestor system.

New island.

Completely new internals and berthing.

Built for railguns and lasers.

New maintenance schedules that require less RCOH and other expensive maintenance.

etc.

All of that is expensive.

But she will pay back too. Requiring over 1000 fewer personnel, over her fifty year life she will be as cheap as, if not cheaper than a Nimitz class, mnot to mention the lessening cost of maintenance.
Click to expand...
Same almost for the QE Class,
No need for EMALS - upto 36 prob USMC some RAF/Fleet air arm could be 148 split 74 each carrier maybe, wish:)
No Need for Cats - they can just drop of the end fast, hopefully get air bourne :)
We have two islands Better just in case a big boom hits one:)
Same for berthing: we dont like to share.
Built for new Tech; Rail guns and Phasers or light guns 7.62 or 5.56mm GPMGs
Reactors wish: lets not forget about the fish and trees, what if one of them got sunk?
Good Radar,That Works most of the time.
Some CIWS could do with more, waiting on Lasers Built for, but no fitted.
Costs Less about £6bil that about $6.5 bil for two, give or take a Mil or Two:)


V/R Mattd
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
mattd said:
Same almost for the QE Class,
No need for EMALS - upto 36 prob USMC some RAF/Fleet air arm could be 148 split 74 each carrier maybe, wish:)
No Need for Cats - they can just drop of the end fast, hopefully get air bourne :)
We have two islands Better just in case a big boom hits one:)
Same for berthing: we dont like to share.
Built for new Tech; Rail guns and Phasers or light guns 7.62 or 5.56mm GPMGs
Reactors wish: lets not forget about the fish and trees, what if one of them got sunk?
Good Radar,That Works most of the time.
Some CIWS could do with more, waiting on Lasers Built for, but no fitted.
Costs Less about £6bil that about $6.5 bil for two, give or take a Mil or Two:)


V/R Mattd
Click to expand...
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now I read
UPDATED: Carrier USS Abraham Lincoln Leaves Newport News on Sea Trials
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) has left Newport News Shipbuilding on sea trials on Tuesday ahead of the official completion of its refueling and midlife overhaul, according to a Huntington Ingalls Industries.

The “several days” of trials are among the last steps the carrier will undergo before returning to the fleet after the four-year maintenance availability, a spokesperson told USNI News.

“Sea trials will provide an opportunity to test comprehensive shipwide repairs and combat system modernization items worked over the duration of the overhaul,” read a statement from Naval Sea Systems Command.

HII published a picture of Lincoln leaving its berth at the shipyard on Tuesday morning.

The crew of the carrier – who have been aboard since last year – completed a pier-side “fast cruise,” last week in perpetration for the sea trials.

“The fast cruise was Lincoln’s last training simulation before departing Newport News Shipbuilding in Newport News, Virginia. The purpose of the fast cruise was to have the full focus of Lincoln’s crew on training, drills and ship-wide evolutions designed to allow Lincoln and her crew to build the confidence and proficiency to return to sea,” read a statement from the service.
“Since February, the crew has been simulating various underway emergency scenarios to include general quarters, man overboard, abandon ship, propulsion plant casualty drills and fire drills all focused on ensuring Lincoln sailors are performing as an operational team before returning to the fleet.”

Following Lincoln’s departure from Newport News, carrier USS George Washington (CVN-73) is set to enter the dry-dock portion of its availability in August, according to a March announcement from the service.

“Our team has worked hard to get USS Abraham Lincoln ready to re-deliver to the fleet. She has undergone significant combat systems modernization and will also be the first CVN capable of accommodating the F-35C Lightning II,” said Rear Adm. Brian Antonio, program executive officer for aircraft carriers in a statement.

The following is the May 9, 2017 statement from NAVSEA.

USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) underway for sea trials following completion of refueling complex overhaul

From Naval Sea Systems Command Public Affairs

WASHINGTON, D.C. – USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) got underway from Newport News, Virginia, May 9, departing for sea trials after completing a 49.5-month refueling complex overhaul (RCOH).

Sea trials will provide an opportunity to test comprehensive shipwide repairs and combat system modernization items worked over the duration of the overhaul.

Over the next several days, CVN 72 Sailors, shipbuilders from Huntington Ingalls Industries-Newport News Shipbuilding (HII-NNS), the Navy’s Supervisor of Shipbuilding, Conversion and Repair and Naval Sea Systems Command personnel will be working side-by-side testing many of the ship’s key systems and technologies.

“Our team has worked hard to get USS Abraham Lincoln ready to re-deliver to the fleet. She has undergone significant combat systems modernization and will also be the first CVN capable of accommodating the F-35C Lightning II,” said Rear Adm. Brian Antonio, program executive officer for aircraft carriers. “This RCOH enables the ship to meet future missions and continued service life requirements for many years to come.”
Click to expand...
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
mattd said:
Same almost for the QE Class,
No need for EMALS - upto 36 prob USMC some RAF/Fleet air arm could be 148 split 74 each carrier maybe, wish:)
No Need for Cats - they can just drop of the end fast, hopefully get air bourne :)
We have two islands Better just in case a big boom hits one:)
Same for berthing: we dont like to share.
Built for new Tech; Rail guns and Phasers or light guns 7.62 or 5.56mm GPMGs
Reactors wish: lets not forget about the fish and trees, what if one of them got sunk?
Good Radar,That Works most of the time.
Some CIWS could do with more, waiting on Lasers Built for, but no fitted.
Costs Less about £6bil that about $6.5 bil for two, give or take a Mil or Two:)


V/R Mattd
Click to expand...
Too bad that did not do cats and traps for the QEs. IMHO, a really shortsighted mistake.

With the cost over runs anyway, they would not have spent too much more, and then they would have had fully operational big deck CATOBAR carriers with F-35C, E-2Ds, etc., etc. and that right there is enough reason.

But, they are getting what they are getting and they will be most excellent vessels in theior own right.

I am ready to see the QE go to sea, like we saw the Ford last month.

Really waiting for that.

The next new carrier after that (after the QE) will either be the Indian Vikrant or the Chinese CV-17.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top