Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Excellent news for the UK and her allies!

I bet the month before the first ship is commissioned Obi Wan does not sleep...

Yeah, good news, but I knew it was going to happen. No way they could be cancelled at the stage they were at, and no one's going to dare scrap a half-completed major warship like an aircraft carrier.

bd popeye said:

Excellent news for the UK and her allies!

I bet the month before the first ship is commissioned Obi Wan does not sleep...

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If need be I'll tow the damn things down from Rosyth myself by swimming the north sea with a tow rope clenched in my teeth!:nana::nono:

More CVF pics! Just released. Also they appear to confirm that the pennant numbers will follow on in sequence from the Invincible class, with HMS Queen Elizabeth being R 08 (last carried by the commando carrier HMS Bulwark scrapped in 1984) and HMS Prince of Wales being R 09 (last carried by the fourth Ark Royal scrapped in 1980):

And some more...

Out of curiosity, why did the RN decide to go with the two island structure for this class? It seems like with the Henry Ford CVN class the USN is trying its hardest to clear up more deck space like moving the island all the way back and to starboard, decreasing the footprint of the island, getting rid of an elevator, etc. On a much smaller carrier you would think the most efficient use of deck space would be a single larger island.

Wolverine said:

Out of curiosity, why did the RN decide to go with the two island structure for this class? It seems like with the Henry Ford CVN class the USN is trying its hardest to clear up more deck space like moving the island all the way back and to starboard, decreasing the footprint of the island, getting rid of an elevator, etc. On a much smaller carrier you would think the most efficient use of deck space would be a single larger island.

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The RN is using two islands to maximize and optimize the efficiency (from their perspective) of landing operations and launch operations. Conducting them from close to where they are actually taking place on the carrier. The RN carriers do not have the same constraints in terms of numbers of aircraft or in terms of launch positions that US aircraft carriers have, so the need to minimize footprint is not as great.

...and BTW, th new CVN-78 aircraft carrier class is the USS Gerald Ford class...not the Henry Ford class. Gerald Ford was the 38th President of the United States and had a very distinguished U.S. Naval service record during World War II.

Wolverine said:

Out of curiosity, why did the RN decide to go with the two island structure for this class? It seems like with the Henry Ford CVN class the USN is trying its hardest to clear up more deck space like moving the island all the way back and to starboard, decreasing the footprint of the island, getting rid of an elevator, etc. On a much smaller carrier you would think the most efficient use of deck space would be a single larger island.

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The CVF design is the winner of a contest between Thales and BAe Systems several years ago, the BAe design featured a single island in contrast to the Thales design. There must have been a percieved advantage in the choice, which may not be obvious to us mere mortals. It does offer a degree of redundancy and battle damage resistence, as each island has the capacity to take on the functions of the other in the event of one being hit by enemy fire. Here are some of the Variations of the BAe Systems CVF proposal:

I was waiting for Obi Wan to answer that question. Even though I kinda sorta knew.

I still do not understand why they need two island if both can do the same functions. I just don't get it. As Wolverine pointed out CVN-78 will have one island moved to a position so as to increase the speed of aircraft movement/fueling and re-arming.

Use the hi-resolution links for the best view.

Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding-Newport News is designing the Gerald R. Ford class of aircraft carrier using a product model tool called CATIA, the most technologically advanced design system in use today in the shipbuilding industry.

Technology innovations for the Ford class include an enhanced flight deck with increased sortie rates, improved weapons movement, a redesigned island, a new nuclear power plant, allowance for future technologies and reduced manning.

Design work on the Gerald R. Ford class of aircraft carrier is underway at Northrop Grumman Newport News with the full construction contract anticipated in 2008. Newport News is designing the Ford class using a product model tool called CATIA, the most technologically advanced system in use today in the shipbuilding industry.


Innovations for the Ford class include an enhanced flight deck with increased sortie rates, improved weapons movement, a redesigned island, a new nuclear power plant, allowance for future technologies and reduced manning. These and many other evolutionary new designs are being developed by Newport News engineers to build the most capable aircraft carriers for the U.S. Navy.


Advance construction is beginning in 2005 for the first ship of the class, CVN 78. This advance work will allow shipbuilders to test the design-build strategy before overall construction begins in 2008. Each carrier of the class is valued at approximately $8 billion. On Aug. 11, 2005,



Northrop Grumman Newport News hosted a ceremonial steel cut and grand opening ceremony for one of several new facilities that will support Ford class construction. The ceremony was held in the shipyard’s new Heavy Plate Bay.

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In part the need for two island is predicated on the positioning of the GT trunking, although I personally think the forward uptakes and down takes could be vented sideways at the deck edge in front of the forward elevator, leaving the aft island to be expanded to funtion as both bridge and flyco. But then again, eliminating one of the islands would at best free up deck space for two Lightnings, and from all the research I have done lately, space is one commodity the ships are not short of anyway. The stated air groups for the CVFs will be 36 F-35Bs, 4 MASC (currently Sea King ASaC7s) and 6 Merlins HMA 1s for ASW and SAR. 46 aircraft in total, which on a 65,000 ton ship seems light to me. The 'rule of thumb' for carriers since the 60s has been one aircraft per 1,000 tons, so there is apparently room for more. The Invincible class at 21,000 tons are stated to ba able to carry up to 22 aircraft, as Harriers, Merlins and Sea Kings have a similar spot factor the overall mix makes little difference. The Lightning is physically not that much bigger in terms of spot factor either, so logically the CVFs should be able to embark over 60 aircraft. Certainly the existence of the large port and starboard flight deck extensions and their deck parks suggest this should be possible, but the design is not about cramming maximum numbers aboard ship, but instead about operating the percieved optimum number of strike aircraft (36) with the greatest efficiency.

Unlike US carriers in the 70s and 80s for example the CVFs air group will have sufficient 'elbow room' to get their jobs done. The USN has also reduced the size of the air wings on their carriers, not because individual aircraft have grown in size (a Hornet is no bigger than a Phantom) but because the requirement for a massive 'Alpha Strike' has receded and the focus is on sustained continuous operations. reducing the overall numbers aboard ship has freed up space for the remaining aircraft to be 'handled' more efficiently for prolonged operations. It's all about sustained sortie rate over a prolonged period rather than how many aircraft can be launched for a single massive strike. In this context the second island may be taking up deck space, but it is deck space that can be spared.