Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

bd popeye said:

Thanks guys.. I have to wonder from afar here across the "pond". If I'm not mistaken don't thousands of jobs rest on the construction of these two ships?? Hasn't the steel ben purchased? And a re-fit of the shipyard is possibly underway. What a waste of billions of pounds if the CVF is sunk. I certainly do hope the programme goes forth as planned.

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Indeed, too much progress has occurred and too much at stake here. In the current economic climate, keeping jobs is numero uno and any policy that would result in the loss of middle income jobs would be politically suicide.

There will be cancellation penalties on this project,- effectively meaning that if the government tries to cancel the carriers they won't save a penny, indeed it will probably cost even more. That's the same situation they have with the tranche 3 Typhoons. Too many jobs are reliant on the completion of this project, such that in a recession any politician who puts that many people on the dole will have committed political suicide. Every time the government has asked the Navy to make cuts they have been prepared to offer anything but the carriers. The Royal Navy knows that without carriers they are finished as anything other than a Coast Guard.

Make no mistake, if the carriers were cancelled, the money would not be redirected to more detroyers, frigates, aircraft or army equipment. It would be lost to defence completely and end up being squandered on someone's pet political project. Remember what happened in the 80s when the RAAF lobbied for the Melbourne replacement project to be cancelled, thinking they could grab the funding for themselves. The money disappeared from the defence budget altogether, and they didn't even get the Navy pilots to transfer and bolster their own numbers. :nono:

I agree with Obi Wan's assessment that cancellation is still unlikely. You lose the money already paid, even more due to penalties, then there's the increase in unemployment and benefits paid out, etc.

I wonder if the RAF is being cynical here. It probably knows the money is lost, but if it was playing a long-term game it might be happy to see the Royal Navy reduced to a glorified coastguard, because that would leave the armed forces with a capability gap that the RAF would say they could fill - with an increase of funding of course.

A naive position to take, but the RAF might see it as being worth a shot if they don't lose out as a result.

Admiral Gorshkov, a Soviet-era aircraft carrier that was bought by India, is anchored in the Sevmash factory in the northern city of Arkhangelsk, Russia, 02 July 2009. Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev on 02 July 2009 criticized the holdup in refurbishing a Soviet-era aircraft carrier that was bought by India five years ago during his visit to Arkhangelsk.

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Did you read that caption? Ouch..I'm sure that shipyard did not appreciate that comment.

Let's just suppose for one moment that the Indian Navy bought a Forrestal class in stead of the Gorshkov. And the IN requirements were similar. Plus they would need catapults to support E-2 Hawkeys. And were planning on operating F-35Bs instead of Mig29s,,What would such a ship look like?? Obi Wan, planeman, Jeff Head..got your MS paint available??

Thanks

bd popeye said:

[qimg]http://i43.tinypic.com/1qsmxe.jpg[/qimg]



Did you read that caption? Ouch..I'm sure that shipyard did not appreciate that comment.

Let's just suppose for one moment that the Indian Navy bought a Forrestal class in stead of the Gorshkov. And the IN requirements were similar. Plus they would need catapults to support E-2 Hawkeys. And were planning on operating F-35Bs instead of Mig29s,,What would such a ship look like?? Obi Wan, planeman, Jeff Head..got your MS paint available??

Thanks

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I just got in from work (yes on a sunday, DOUBLE TIME!) and was planning to put my feet up in front of the goggle box for a few hours when I read this post. I can resist anything but temptation! Here's my fast stab... I'll have a crack at Stobar and ctol after I've had some sleep...

Thank you Obi Wan! I realize would never give up the arresting grea and catapult engineering ..but..how would you configure this shipwith catapults. Run them off the angle or bow?? Thanks!

One more thing..If the Indian Navy had purchased CV-59 in 2003 they would have an operating CV by now. Just my opinion.

PS..nice touch with the V on the stern of the flight deck!

bd popeye said:

Thank you Obi Wan! I realize would never give up the arresting grea and catapult engineering ..but..how would you configure this shipwith catapults. Run them off the angle or bow?? Thanks!

One more thing..If the Indian Navy had purchased CV-59 in 2003 they would have an operating CV by now. Just my opinion.

PS..nice touch with the V on the stern of the flight deck!

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Thanks for the praise. Couldn't wait to have a crack at the Stobar option. I think the CTOL option would be minimum change from US standard. I don't think there would be a problem with transferring US Steam Catapults to India, as the IN has already operated the technology in the past.

I'm a cat and trap man myself at heart, but also a frustrated design engineer so it's fun to toy with the possibilities. This second option illustrated below also retains the potential to become a hybrid carrier by re installing two cats on the angled deck, increasing the range of aircraft types which could be operated. I'm thinking Super Hornets could enter the mix at this point...

Thanks Obi wan! I guess you stayed up real late on the other side of the pond to render that drawing! Did you know all the USN de-commed CVs have their catapults removed except the JFK?

Unfortunately for its allies the US is not willing to sell any of the 7 seven decommissioned CVs it has laid up. What a waste.

The IN ,hopefully, soon will have the "V" in service unless the Russians hold up the deal any longer.

Found some more pictures of the Naval Strike Wing's recent deployment aboard HMS Illustrious to Norway:

Latest news on the CVFs, Official first steel cutting ceremony in Govan attended by HRH The Princess Royal and the First Sea Lord:



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