Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Jeff Head · May 11, 2014

Air Force Brat said:
I know you're shy, but this is just as you have reminded us so many times, the Indians are coming up to speed quickly, because the have a history and the expertise and dogma of Indian carrier ops are already written and trained to a standard???? very Kool and thanks Jeff

No problem, my friend.

Seeing the Indians with these young, cocky pilots tells us a couple of things.

First, they have young, cocky pilots flying these aircraft. That is not meant as a slight. That's what these guys are, and what they do. All hot stick fighter pilots have a certain swagger about them...they almost have to, as long as they are also disciplined and well trained.

Second, it tells us that they have a program in place that has already produced the older, more experienced pilots who serving as instructors and probably in the aggressor exercises...who are able to now take these young mid-late twenties age pilots, with all of their very fast reaction times and physic, and train them in numbers. It tells us their naval flight training program is mature.

Of course, with so many years of both fixed wing (earlier) and then the Harriers, carrier flight experience, it is also understandable that the Indians would have a leg up in this area. They have long since institutionalized it. And now they are taking advantage of that and moving relatively quickly as a result.

Franklin · May 11, 2014

Jeff Head said:
Well, "combat capable," is a relative term.

The Indians have conducted combat operations with their carriers in the past, and have developed the strategies, policies, and planning for it. They have also stood up an entire wing of production Mig-29Ks since last year, so you know they have been working those aircraft into strike and air defense capable aircraft...it's why they exist.

They are now melding the Vikramaditya with its new and improved air wing and capabilities into that, and yes it will take them some time to get all of those issues honed down to a well working mechanism.

However, I believe that if necessary, the Virkamaditya would be able to go to battle very quickly if called upon at this stage. Depending on who she was fighting against, she may do very well...or not so well, and depending on who the adversary might be, the Indian war planners would take all of that into consideration and not send her into a situation where she had little chance for success.

The Chinese need to get their air wing onboard the Liaoning. Once that is accomplished and they are working those flight personnel up, then they too would be ready, to whatever degree they had trained, to also go in harm's way. but without an air wing aboard, then she does not have her principle weapon and would simply be a target without it.

That's the next bug milestone we can look for with the Lioaning...her exercising with multiple production level J-15s aboard, and seeing that number grow.

I would still like to see a picture of the Vikramaditya embarking sixteen Mig-29Ks.

We know they have the air wing operational. They have had it in service for over a year now. But nonetheless, I would like to see them onboard the Vikramaditya.

The Indians have been recieving MiG-29K's from Russia since mid 2011 and no doubt they have trained on it and trained on it hard. However its only at the end of last year that 10 Indian pilots went to Russia to train in a special facility to learn how to land with arrestor wires and how to take off from a ski ramp. India's own facility only opened earlier this year. So the Indian MiG pilots have been training on simulators and have been taking off and landing their planes on conventional airfields for the past few years. So they have very little experience in landing and taking off from a flight deck. But now that they are at sea they will get better at it every day.

As for pictures and videos of the INS Vikramaditya with her full air wing. I have been stalking Youtube and Indian Defence Forum for it but so far no luck.

thunderchief · May 11, 2014

Franklin said:
"Fully operational" for the Vikramaditya at this point means that her air wing of 16 MiG-29K Fulcrum-D's are deployed and she has an escort fleet. She is also taking part in exercises with other ships in the IN. But like the Liaoning it will take years before she is combat capable. But the Indians are moving at light speed with their carrier program compared to the Chinese. While the Vikramaditya is doing all of that the Liaoning is struck in the drydock.

Difference of opinion then. In my book, fully operational carrier must be ready to use its full complement in case of war, at least on some basic level. Obviously, you would need to have at least equal number of trained pilots and planes, not to mention other aviation personnel. This goes for Indian Navy and for any other navy in the world .

aksha · May 12, 2014

passed by karwar today ,vikramaditya's not yet in port i expect her photos soon enough .the indian prime minister who will surrender power to a new person on 16 may wil be expected to visit her before 15 may.vikram now has a 10 mig 29s ready

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The $2.3 billion INS Vikramaditya was handed over to Indian Navy on November 16, 2013 at Sevmash, a Russian port. The warship arrived in Karwar on January 7 after 40 days of voyage. Since then, the warship has been stationed in Karwar naval base in Karnataka, but without adequate air defence guns for any protection against aerial attacks. However, the naval sources claim that the aircraft carrier always moves in a carrier battle groups, escorted by warships with all air defence weaponry. Refit of air defence guns on the aircraft carrier will take place soon.

"Yes, the formal induction of INS Vikramaditya has been delayed. But, the aircraft carrier is now capable of its full deployment. Fighter aircraft such as MiG 29 have embarked and being flown by Indian naval pilots. So far, we have trained 10 MiG 29 naval pilots, who have been trained to operate from INS Vikramaditya,"said an officer.

aksha · May 13, 2014

thunderchief said:
Last Sunday morning was 4th of May, and your article is also from May 4th, and I'm talking about April .

6 pilots qualified to land and take-off is not a enough for a ship to be completely operationally qualified. I remind you that Vikramaditya carries at least 12 Mig-29K (if not more) . Also, it is not enough to be able to land and take-off, pilots must be qualified to use weapons, to handle emergency situations etc ...

Therefore, it will take at least year or two for INS Vikramaditya to be fully ready for combat.

10 pilots qualified now ,in the 4 months since ins vikramaditya reached india ,this is her 3 rd deployement each deployement of 40-45 days,so he spend almost 90 days at sea which is almost 3 months,so she spent 3 of her months in india at seasince you are so intersted in what she was doing in april,then know that she got a new paint job as well as a new non skid flight deck surface so she was not sitting idle during entire april as you say,also the mig 29 k pilots have been taking off from ski ramp since late 2012 in goa,though they couldnot have landing practices since the arrestor wires were not ready,but mig 29 pilots have a lot of practise flying in the night,since dabolim airport is a civilian airport the only time the mig29s were allowed to practice is from 1:00a.m-4:00a.m in the darkness with few exceptions.according to a friend who serves with the indian navy,vikraaditya is scheduled to participate in the malabar 2014 exercises in september off the coast of japan and also the indra exercises with russia

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A Sevmash-led delegation comprising of representatives of Rosoboronexport, Nevskoye PKB, and Salyut inspected the INS Vikramaditya on the invitation of the Indian Navy, Morskoi Vestnik reported on its website.

A Sevmash-led delegation comprising of representatives of Rosoboronexport, Nevskoye PKB, and Salyut inspected the INS Vikramaditya on the invitation of the Indian Navy, Morskoi Vestnik reported on its website.

The Sevmash delegation was led by General Director Mikhail Budnichenko was welcomed by Vice Admiral Ashok Subhedar, Director General of Naval Projects (Mumbai). Indian and Russian representatives boarded the Vikramaditya and familiarised themselves with the current condition of the vessel, Morskoi Vestnik (MV) added. The aircraft carrier performed faultlessly during her very difficult passage from Russia to India and she is now in active service with the Indian Navy. Aircraft regularly operate from the vessel at sea. Indian pilots are undergoing training led by pilots from the MiG Corporation. Also on board during naval exercises are a guarantee group made up of 54 specialists from Sevmash as well as other contract partners.

During the inspection, Vice-Admiral Subhedar handed Mikhail Budnichenko a letter on behalf of the Indian Navy in which the work of specialists from the paint-insulation and assembly workshops were highly praised, MV added. Working in India, Russian shipwrights completed a planned replacement of the surface on the aircraft carrier’s flight deck. “The group of Russian specialists demonstrated a high degree of professionalism and competence in carrying out the most complex of painting tasks in high temperatures and high humidity, which are diametrically opposed to climatic conditions in Russia. The specialists earned the complete understanding and trust of the ship’s crew, which provided excellent results,” MV quoted the Indian Navy as writing in the letter.

Sevmash representative also met senior Indian Naval officials in Delhi. Issues concerning the Vikramaditya’s post-warranty maintenance were discussed at these talks, MV said. The warranty for maintenance of the vessel by the Severodvinsk enterprise expires on November 16, 2014. The Indian military put forward a proposal to extend future cooperation and ensure that the vessel be maintained by Russian specialists throughout her entire life cycle. Further talks will be held on post-warranty maintenance this month, according to Morskoi Vestnik.

FORBIN · May 13, 2014

Thanks for you infos aksha , very interesting !

Definitely one second sqn on Mig-29K, next year maybe.

asif iqbal · May 13, 2014

That's interesting news if the carrier is "operational" another flat top in the mix

Kind of disappointing knowing that China will not be sending its carrier out this year which really means we can focus on the J15 air wing and see how that development comes along for the rest of the year

We can also look forward to the commissioning of the Aussie LHD this year that will be a good sight

The second unit is due to be commissioned in 2016

2015 will see the JMSDF commission it's Izumo Class with the second unit launched in 2015 too it's a big year for the JMSDF next year really they will have two large flat tops in the water

If all goes well for Russia they will also commission their Mistral Class this year and next one in 2015

So we have plenty of flat top action to look forward too

So this year in 2014 we can expect
Australia to commission it's first Canberra Class LHD
Russia to commission it's first Mistral Class LHD

In 2015
Japan to commission it's first Izumo Class LHD
Japan also launches it's second Izumo Class
Russia to commission it's second Mistral Class

In 2016
Australia commissions it's second LHD

2017
Japan commissions it's second Izumo Class

That's 6 flat tops in the region in the next few years and I have a slight feeling that China is slipping in regards to its flat top fleet we seen a quick 3 x Type 071 LPD and Liaoning rolling out but then nothing after that they should continue the flat top production and get a large LHD/LHA in the works as well as their carrier construction

I can already see the following, USS America, RAN Canberaa Class and Izumo Class from JMSDF sailing together in formation wow what a sight that would be!

RIMPAC is going to get very very busy in the coming years if China throws in a CVG

Jura The idiot · May 14, 2014

Just found on the Italian Navy Facebook profile:

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(the carrier here is the Giuseppe Garibaldi (551) simply because I can't see the EMPAR radar of the Cavour

but I'm not able to identify all of the escort vessels, don't even know if all of them are Italian -- Jeff, maybe?

aksha · May 15, 2014

an intersting documentry on the mig 29k,its developement ,and how it differs from previous mig 29s[video=youtube;TqeG0jcES6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqeG0jcES6s[/video]

Jeff Head · May 15, 2014

I took a few days and put together the following article about the Vikramaditya transformation, which is very much similar to the article I also did on the Liaoning.

Be warned, it is pictorially intensive, but I believe covers the entire event like no other site I have seen:

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I am still editing to get all of the wording right and get rid of the typos, but thought that SD members would enjoy it and could use it as a resource.

Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Jeff Head

General

Franklin

Captain

thunderchief

Senior Member

aksha

Captain

aksha

Captain

FORBIN

Lieutenant General

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General

Jura The idiot

General

aksha

Captain

Jeff Head

General