Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

I think it was in this thread that people asked why the F-18 E and F are nicknamed Rhino... ?
One of the answer was "because of the hump on its nose".

I told this to a Super Hornet pilot last month, he smiled and said "I guess its a good explanation as any"...

Then he said this:


[video=youtube;J0s-G2miCQA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0s-G2miCQA&feature=youtu.be&t=11m17s[/video]

Everybody following this thread probably knows, but anyway:

The U.S. Navy regularly exercises and joins in combat operations with its NATO/Euopean allies. This is a picture of a combined grouping. It was during Operation Enduring Freedom in the Oman Sea in 2002. Five nations shown here in four descending columns, from left to right:

Italian frigate, Maestrale (F 570)
French ASW destroyer, De Grasse (D 612)
US Navy Nimitz class nuclear carrier, USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74)
French nuclear carrier, Charles De Gaulle (R 91)
French Lafayette frigate, Surcouf (F 711)
US Navy Ticonderoga AEGIS cruiser, USS Port Royal (CG-73)
Royal Navy Amphibious/Air assault vessel, HMS Ocean (L 12)
United States convetnional super carrier, USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67)
HNLMS Karl Doorman classdestroyer, Van Amstel (F 831)
ITS Luigi Durand de la Penne (D 560)

I always enjoy seeing combined groups like this.

One Nimitz class carrier is more powerful than all the aircraft carriers of Europe combined. This situation will only improve after the 2 QE II class carriers are being commissioned. By then it will take 2 Nimitz class carriers to be more powerful than all of Europe's carriers combined. Europe that's a collection of smaller nations will never be able to afford to build and operate a super carrier like the US Nimitz class. I think only China and perhabs India can attempt such an undertaking in the future.

Jeff Head said:

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The U.S. Navy regularly exercises and joins in combat operations with its NATO/Euopean allies. This is a picture of a combined grouping. It was during Operation Enduring Freedom in the Oman Sea in 2002. Five nations shown here in four descending columns, from left to right:

Italian frigate, Maestrale (F 570)
French ASW destroyer, De Grasse (D 612)
US Navy Nimitz class nuclear carrier, USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74)
French nuclear carrier, Charles De Gaulle (R 91)
French Lafayette frigate, Surcouf (F 711)
US Navy Ticonderoga AEGIS cruiser, USS Port Royal (CG-73)
Royal Navy Amphibious/Air assault vessel, HMS Ocean (L 12)
United States convetnional super carrier, USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67)
HNLMS Karl Doorman classdestroyer, Van Amstel (F 831)
ITS Luigi Durand de la Penne (D 560)

I always enjoy seeing combined groups like this.

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My friend Naval Commander Thomas H. was likely serving as Flight Surgeon on the Kennedy at that time, as he volunteered to go back to sea with his former shipmates shortly after 9/11/01, although he had four children, his wife managed affairs on their farm, she was an Army Brat, and off he went, he stayed with the Kennedy until her retirement.

Air Force Brat said:

My friend Naval Commander Thomas H. was likely serving as Flight Surgeon on the Kennedy at that time, as he volunteered to go back to sea with his former shipmates shortly after 9/11/01, although he had four children, his wife managed affairs on their farm, she was an Army Brat, and off he went, he stayed with the Kennedy until her retirement.

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Our family doctor here in Emmett at the time, was a full Colonel in the U.S. Army and had retired to the National Guard and had his practice in our small town. After 911, he went back "to work," after and was assigned over to a large base in Washington State where he freed up regular army medical staff to go on over to Enduring Freedom and then Iraqi Freedom. When he got back, he worked another 3-4 years and then retired from his practice almost four years ago not long after my surgeries in Texas, and he and his wife are now retired and serving a mission for our church.

Franklin said:

One Nimitz class carrier is more powerful than all the aircraft carriers of Europe combined.

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I'm not sure you can say this.

The French Charles de Gaulle is a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. It's Rafael M aircraft and its E-2C Hawkeyes are powerful. If you add the Italian Cavour which will have F-35Bs (or the current Harriers), and the Italian Jaun Carlos with F-35Bs (or Harriers) and use the AMRAAM armed Cavour and Juan Carlos aircraft for CAP and barrier CAP, assisted by Hawkeyes...and then provide the excellent escorts the Europeans have in the French and Italian Horizon vessels, the UK Daring vessels, the Spanish Bazan AEGIS vessels and the UK's Type 23 FFGs, along with UK Astute and French Rubis SSNs, you have a force that easily could be a match for a single Nimitz CSG. At the very least the Nimitz would have to be very, very careful when dealing with such a force.

Franklin said:

This situation will only improve after the 2 QE II class carriers are being commissioned. By then it will take 2 Nimitz class carriers to be more powerful than all of Europe's carriers combined. Europe that's a collection of smaller nations will never be able to afford to build and operate a super carrier like the US Nimitz class. I think only China and perhabs India can attempt such an undertaking in the future.

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Again, I don't think you can really say this

I believe two Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth carriers, accompanied by the French Charles de Gaulle and either one or both of the other carriers I mentioned, which in that time frame will all have airwings of F-35Bs...you would have a force that would be very difficult for two Nimitz class carriers to deal with. You'd need three...and then it would still be a dangerous sitiation.

The fact of the matter is that all of these nations are allies and not likely at all in the forseeable future to be set against one another. Rather, you would see them all allying together against other opposition forces.

In addition to China and India, I would add Russia to the mix of those nations capable of building a larger carrier. They may well build a larger carrier in the forseeable future. Even then though, I do not forsee any of them building anything like the Ford Class. Maybe something on the order of 80,000 tons in the future for any of those three.

For reference:

If a Queen Elizabeth Class is equipped with the fighters it was designed for that's 36 x F35B then on a "surge" two such carrier will be carrying 72 fighter aircraft

A Nimitz Carrier typically carrys what 48 fighters, so it would take two Nimitz Class to out do the Royal Navy alone

In fact it would take two full strength carrier strike groups from the USN to hold off the Royal Navy alone

Then France, Spain and Italy could hold down another Nimitz group and while a fourth would ensure superiority

So Europe can hold down four USN carrier groups or have the fire power, sortie and bombs on target rate of atleast 2-3 Nimitz Class carriers dont think Europe is so weak, Royal Navy just added in six Daring Class and two huge carriers, Britain is back in the game, the Empire is about to strike back again!

Really Royal Navy has again taken the European lead

asif iqbal said:

If a Queen Elizabeth Class is equipped with the fighters it was designed for that's 36 x F35B then on a "surge" two such carrier will be carrying 72 fighter aircraft

A Nimitz Carrier typically carrys what 48 fighters, so it would take two Nimitz Class to out do the Royal Navy alone

...dont think Europe is so weak.

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Well Asif, you are getting a bit too exuberant.

Yes, the Queen Es can hold more fighters than they currently plan. Instead of the 12, each could hold 36.

But the US carriers can do the same, only a lot more.

If it was a known big fight, and if the Europeans were "surging," each US carrier would also "surge," and carry 90+ aircraft which would mean each of them would go in with 72 of their own fighters. On each carrier.

Two fully equipped Nimitz though would still have a hard time against two Queen Es and the Charles de Gaulle and either of or both of the Cavour and the Juan Carlos. And the Queen Es absolutely need the CDG for is for the Hawkeyes. Sadly, when the UK went with the STOBAR carrier, as opposed to the CATOBAR, they missed out on the best AEW too. and the AEW is a game changer in these kind of confrontations.

Maybe some day a very decent Opsrey AEW aircraft will be developed, but even then, that aircraft will not be a match of the E-2C...much less the new E-2D the US will have.

So...if you add all five of the major european carriers together, that's why I say it will take at least three US carriers to deal with that. The European force would max out at about 156 fighters, while the three Nimitz would bring 216 to the same party. Advantage US...but still a very dangerous situation.

As it is...it's not going to happen. All of those carriers will be on the same side in any forseeable future conflict.

French CVBG through Suez











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I can't seem to be able to hotlink those...