Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)
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thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: 2013 China Russia Joint Naval Training
It is not . It has much smaller displacement then Kiev class or Wasp class (almost double) , relatively small crew and provisions to carry troops but not much place for F-35B in hangar or even on the deck if it carry helicopters . In fact , JMSDF officially or semiofficialy never mentioned possibility to use 22DDH as aircraft carrier .
It is not . It has much smaller displacement then Kiev class or Wasp class (almost double) , relatively small crew and provisions to carry troops but not much place for F-35B in hangar or even on the deck if it carry helicopters . In fact , JMSDF officially or semiofficialy never mentioned possibility to use 22DDH as aircraft carrier .
Re: 2013 China Russia Joint Naval Training
It will be larger than the Invincible, Principe Austrias or Gibraldi.
It is 27,000 tons and 820 ft long and 125 ft wide. The hanger is over 500 ft long and almost 100 ft wide.
By comparison other light carriers look like this:
The UK Invincible class is 20,3000 tons and 695 ft long and 118 ft wide with a hanger 480 ft long and 70 ft wide.
The Spanish Principe de Austrias is 17,000 tons and 640 ft long and 104 ft wide.
The Italian Garibldi is 13,000 tons and 590 ft long and 108 ft wide.
The closest in size to the the 22DDH and is the new Italian Cavour carrier, which is clearly going to be an effective light carrier.
It is 26,000 tons, 800 ft long, and 128 ft wide.
If the Japanese put F-35Bs on the 22DDH carriers, they too will be, without question, effective light carriers.
It can certainly be a light carrier. No doubt about it. When they moved the large elevator to the side, and removed the CIWS from the bow flight deck, and increased the flight deck and hanger deck size considerably over the Hyuga, they punctuated that fact.
It will be larger than the Invincible, Principe Austrias or Gibraldi.
It is 27,000 tons and 820 ft long and 125 ft wide. The hanger is over 500 ft long and almost 100 ft wide.
By comparison other light carriers look like this:
The UK Invincible class is 20,3000 tons and 695 ft long and 118 ft wide with a hanger 480 ft long and 70 ft wide.
The Spanish Principe de Austrias is 17,000 tons and 640 ft long and 104 ft wide.
The Italian Garibldi is 13,000 tons and 590 ft long and 108 ft wide.
The closest in size to the the 22DDH and is the new Italian Cavour carrier, which is clearly going to be an effective light carrier.
It is 26,000 tons, 800 ft long, and 128 ft wide.
If the Japanese put F-35Bs on the 22DDH carriers, they too will be, without question, effective light carriers.
Re: V/STOL Air Craft Carrier
did they also used these subs as trade subs with germany?
did they also used these subs as trade subs with germany?
Re: Aircraft Carriers
No.. this could be the future USN fighter/attack aircraft. It will be a long time coming.
No.. this could be the future USN fighter/attack aircraft. It will be a long time coming.
Re: Aircraft Carriers
Yes, the FXX. I included it in .
thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: 2013 China Russia Joint Naval Training
Príncipe de Asturias and Giuseppe Garibaldi barely operated even Harriers , usually no more then six of them . Harrier is much smaller and lighter then F-35 B (which by the way doesn't have folding wings ) . Invincible class has about the same displacement as 22DDH if you exclude provisions for troops and armored vehicles within 22DDH . And yet , Invincible class cannot operate F-35B (lifts , hangars etc ... ) according to British .
We are left with Cavour , somewhat larger then 22DDH (30 000 t full load ) but according to Italians admission it cannot operate F-35B right now and will have to be modified with increased displacement (if they find money to do that
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Príncipe de Asturias and Giuseppe Garibaldi barely operated even Harriers , usually no more then six of them . Harrier is much smaller and lighter then F-35 B (which by the way doesn't have folding wings ) . Invincible class has about the same displacement as 22DDH if you exclude provisions for troops and armored vehicles within 22DDH . And yet , Invincible class cannot operate F-35B (lifts , hangars etc ... ) according to British .
We are left with Cavour , somewhat larger then 22DDH (30 000 t full load ) but according to Italians admission it cannot operate F-35B right now and will have to be modified with increased displacement (if they find money to do that
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Here is a picture of the Principe de Asturias with seven Harries aboard...that's a good load for a 17,000 tons carrier.
But, here's a picture of the even smaller Garibaldi, at 13,000 tons, with eight Harriers.
They were capable of carrying even more if necessary, but because there have been no major conflicts for them to be involved in, of course they normally operated with far less than their overall capability.
The F-35B is 4 1/2 feet wider than the AV-8B and 4 ft longer. While that is a larger footprint, it is not a lot bigger, and the elevators of both the 22DDH and Cavour can handle them. The weight is 10,000 libs heavier empty...and that is quite a boit of course. But that was one of the points in building them. The US Navy and Marines wanted an aircraft that could carry significanlty more ordinance than a Harrier, and carry it further. in order to do that, the aircraft itself had to be heavier.Thunderchief said:
No, it is not...the Invincible was alos set uip to be able to carry troops if necessary. The fact is, the full load displacement of the Invincible class is 20,300 tons, and the 22DDH is 27,000 tons. it is a good bit longer, wider, had a heavy deck edge elevator, and has a signficantly larger hanger. Neither of these vessels were set up to have carrying troops be a major part of their operational capability, though they can carry some.thunderchief said:
If the Italians intend to continue with a fixed wing naval air capability, then they will most definitely operated F-35Bs off of the Cavour. The Italians are purchasing them, and the Harriers are at the end of their service life. It's just as simple as that.thundferchief said:
The 22DDH will be able to accomodate F-35Bs, even if they make some changes in order to do so. In the long view and overall sense of things, those changes will be relatively minor.
My point is simple, the 22DDH, the Cavour, and a number of other vessels out there are capable of operating the F-35B. They will just have to decide if they want to, and then make it happen.
The 22DDH, IMHO, was and is being designed so that they can go that route if they decide to do so...otherwise they could have more easily and more cheaply just built two more Hyugas. but the Hyuga would be far more difficult and costly to convert to be F-35Bs operational. So, the Japoanese didn't do that. Instead, they are building two much larger carriers, with a longer, wider flight deck, a larger heavier elevator on the deck edge, and with a significantly larger hanger than the Hyugas.
Now, whether they end up operating F-35Bs off of them is something we will have to wait for. I personally believe, that as China builds more carriers and naval air capability, the Japanese will elect to make both of these new carries JSF capable.
Time will tell, but the fact that they are in a poisition to do so, tells you that the 22DDHs are capable of being effective light aircraft carriers.
And I am going to leave it at that now. The thread is about the 2013 China/Russian Naval exercises and we have driffted far off topic.
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