Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

hkbc said:

Wonder if they tried to send a torpedo directly into the stern? Didn't the soviets deploy wake homing torpedoes in their subs as a way to disable large surface ships (i.e. carriers)?

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My guess is that they loaded her up, stem to stern with as many electronic sensors as possible, including CCTV, transmitting real time to the gathered fleet.

Then they executed several "Plans" that would replicate, as closely as possible, every conceivable type of attack on that carrier that they might expect, to see what damage would be done. The US has numerous copies of Russian ordinance so they may have been used too. The worst attacks occurring as they got closer to being finished so if they did sink her, they would have gathered info on all of the other "attacks" before hand.

The fact, that in the end, they had to scuttle her, says a lot.

Now, could they have just kept firing six or eight Mk-48s into her on each side and brought her down? Undoubtedly, but I am sure they did their math and came up with what they though could conceivably happen and then subjected the vessel to those attacks, one after the other...heck, they may have even done a little repair in between...we just don't know.

No doubt condition Zebra was in effect,,,but we don't really know that either. The only photo ever released by the US Navy of the actual exercise was this one...right after she sank.

The US has numerous copies of Russian ordnance so they may have been used too

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I heard a rumor from a well placed source that a device similar to the one that damaged the USS Cole DDG-67 was also used.

No doubt condition Zebra was in effect,,,but we don't really know that either. The only photo ever released by the US Navy of the actual exercise was this one...right after she sank

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For you fellows that don't know material condition Zebra is when all water tight doors, hatches, trunks access etc are secured...

ZEBRA. Provides the greatest degree of subdivision and watertight integrity to the ship. It is the maximum state of readiness for the ship’s survivability system. Condition ZEBRA is set when the following situations occur:

1. Immediately when GQ is sounded
2. When entering or leaving port in wartime
3. To localize damage and control fire and flooding when the crew is not at GQ
4. At any time the CO deems the maximum condition of survivability should be set.

All fittings marked with X or Y, Circle X, Circle Y, Z, Circle Z, and DOG Zs are closed when condition ZEBRA is set.

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Miss "A" served her country well, right to that fateful end...teaching us things all the way.

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I served on the America in 1981 for 10 months as part of CVW-11 and VS-33.. not my favorite ship...

America was chosen for the SINKEX because as a Kitty Hawk class ship her design is very similar to an Nimitz class.

That ship made 21 major deployment in her short 31 year career. Plus numerous junkets to the North and South Atlantic of about two moths. Three of her major deployments were to WESPAC during the Vietnam war. This done in spite of the fact that she was an Atlantic fleet carrier. Her deployment in 1991 included Desert Storm.

The USS America never had a major overhaul. Her longest re-fit was only 10 months long. She was rode hard and put up wet.

@ Obi Wan Russell
When you mentioned a maximum speed for using a ski ramp did you only look at Harrier and F-35B, aircraft designed for vertical landing and so with lightly build landing gear, or also at STOBAR aircraft with the very robust landing gear designed for very violent recovery?

delft said:

@ Obi Wan Russell
When you mentioned a maximum speed for using a ski ramp did you only look at Harrier and F-35B, aircraft designed for vertical landing and so with lightly build landing gear, or also at STOBAR aircraft with the very robust landing gear designed for very violent recovery?

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The Harrier's landing gear is pretty robust, as is the Lightning's. They have to withstand being dropped vertically onto the deck. The point everyone seems to be missing though, is the purpose of the ramp. It is to get your aircraft off the deck BEFORE you have achieved fully wingborne flight. If you can get enough airflow over your wings by the time you reach the end of the deck, then you don't need the ramp as you are already flying. The US experimented with ramps in the 80s as a landbased solution to possible combat loss of runways, for jet fighters. These aircraft could be launched into the air in a fraction of the distance needed on a conventional runway. They didn't magically speed up in a shorter distance, they still needed the same distance as before to go from zero to flying speed, the ramp just got then off the ground early, after which they still had to accelerate (in the air) to flying speed before they dropped back to earth.

Remember, CTOL: Start Takeoff Roll, Reach Flying Speed, Fly.

Ski Jump Takeoff: Start Takeoff Roll, Fly, Reach Flying Speed.

bd popeye said:

That ship made 21 major deployment in her short 31 year career. Plus numerous junkets to the North and South Atlantic of about two months.

The USS America never had a major overhaul.

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Wow! 21 deployments in 31 years with several junkets and never a single major overhaul.

I was not aware of that. She was used up....and "put away wet," in the strictest definition of the term. You know they learned a lot from that SINKEX, and you know it is benefitting the US Navy capitol ship design and building effort now and for many, many years in the future.

Latest on the Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth under constriction at Rosyth is that the last section denoted Lower Block 04 left Govan shipyard last month and has arrived at Rosyth shipyard for integration with the rest of the structure, the carrier is now on time for starting sea trials in 2017

Her sister ship the Prince of Wales has Lower Block 03 and Lower Block 03 under production at Govan and the rest of the blocks at 6 other UK shipyards, as before after competition they will all be sent to Rosyth for assembly


In addition the 4 replenishment tankers under construction in South Korea are to be named the Tide Class

The names are Tidespring, Tiderace, Tidessurge and Tideforce and will enter service in 2016 and are all double hulled

Home for Christmas: 9 Flattops at Norfolk

More pics:

That is a stunning picture and a rare one at that where almost the entire flattop fleet is at the home base

What is missing is

USS Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71
USS Ponce LPD-15
And a San Antonio Class LPD

Oh look a Super Carrier Reunion.
I would hate too be the guy handing out the Hello my name is Stickers.