Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

I remember bdpopeye said that there will be many happy campers when markings start to show up on the Varyag. Well, that day is here

two more.

static16.photo.sina.com.cn/middle/5e71f54btvb1aiznawv3z&690

static4.photo.sina.com.cn/middle/61bc78e3tvb1aixuuk1lv&690

Copy and paste into browser. My old acct was deleted so I had to work from the ground up in terms of posts (no links, no pics).

Those are some really nice pics Jeff -- how did you come up with the layout of the hangars? (eyeballing inside hangar pics of the various carriers, getting from fact sheets or just estimation?)
And wow the IN's going to have a hard time operating vikramditya -- both elevators are dangerously close to the landing strip, both take off positions are right on the landing strip (no simultaneous take off/recovery basically), and no natural light can get into the hangars either. Ouch.

Those pictures also put into perspective how much distance/thickness there is between the top of the hangar and the flight deck. Am I right in thinking modern cvs and cvns do not have armoured flight decks? Does anyone have any idea how they would fare against a dive bomber from WWII? I ask because of the terminal stage of the ASBM will be somewhat similar, if loaded with a hard/delayed fuse warhead and it seems strikingly similar to the top attack profile of dive bombers.

Bltizo said:

Those are some really nice pics Jeff -- how did you come up with the layout of the hangars? (eyeballing inside hangar pics of the various carriers, getting from fact sheets or just estimation?)

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Lots of research. The ones I have shown have dimensions and layout in the public domain from authoritatve sources, including the military. Still looking for others, some of which I mentioned above.

Bltizo said:

And wow the IN's going to have a hard time operating vikramditya -- both elevators are dangerously close to the landing strip, both take off positions are right on the landing strip (no simultaneous take off/recovery basically), and no natural light can get into the hangars either. Ouch.

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But that is still workable. They intend to be able to work on their airwing of 12 Mik 29Ks there and they have the room for that many and the helos they carry.

Bltizo said:

Those pictures also put into perspective how much distance/thickness there is between the top of the hangar and the flight deck. Am I right in thinking modern cvs and cvns do not have armoured flight decks? Does anyone have any idea how they would fare against a dive bomber from WWII? I ask because of the terminal stage of the ASBM will be somewhat similar, if loaded with a hard/delayed fuse warhead and it seems strikingly similar to the top attack profile of dive bombers.

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Generally mordern CV and CVN flight decks are armored/hardened steel, with an entire level of spaces (rooms, offices, etc.) in between the flight deck and the hangar. Still, a large bomb or missile with a hardened tip and delayed fuse will likely penetrate.

Generally modern CV and CVN flight decks are armored/hardened steel, with an entire level of spaces (rooms, offices, etc.) in between the flight deck and the hangar. Still, a large bomb or missile with a hardened tip and delayed fuse will likely penetrate.

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True Jeff, witness the Forrestal fire and Enterprise fire where 500lb and 1000lb bombs penetrated the flight deck.

January 14, 1969 On its way to the coast of Vietnam, 70nm. of Honolulu, the Enterprise conducted flight operations. During the arming of an F-4 Phantom one of the aircraft's Zuni missiles detonated. The fire was spreading to other armed planes and some of their bombs and missiles detonated, too. USS Enterprise turned into the wind to keep the flames away from the isle.One hour later the fire on the flight deck was under control but there were still fires inside the ship which were finally extinguished some hours later. During the eight explosions and the following fires aboard Enterprise, 27 crewmen were killed and approx. 120 others were injured (other sources: 24 dead men and 85 injured people).The aircraft carrier was heavily damaged and in the flight deck there were three holes (one of them through two decks). 15 aircraft were destroyed or damaged.

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bd popeye said:

True Jeff, witness the Forrestal fire and Enterprise fire where 500lb and 1000lb bombs penetrated the flight deck.

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So it was simply the explosion of the bombs on deck which caused the holes? That's rather frightening, I can only imagine what a similar yield weapon being dropped from a dive bomber or even a ballistic missile can do...
Thanks for the info.

Jeff Head said:

All good points and equally something that could be accomplished. But to have two full wings of F-35Cs pop up from under the ocean on your doorstep...with full stores, full AEW capability, full ASW capability, AAW, etc....and other subs carrying that many troops and their equipment LCACs, tanks, etc...that would be very impressive too.

Anyhow, changing topics now for the Carrier thread, here are some pics I have been working on...and promising...about carrier hangar bays.

What do you think about this comparison. The info for all carriers is not easy to get a hold of, but I am working on the others (like the Brazilian, Thai, the new indegenous Indian, etc.).

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That's a really nice demonstration. I find it interesting that the Nimitz class carrier's hangar is so much higher than all the other carriers.

And considering how large Varyag's carrier is, it really should be able to carry a larger air wing than Charles De Gaulle class

I think the height of the Varyag's hanger is more than 5.7m coz the Su-33's height is 5.9m.

Bltizo said:

So it was simply the explosion of the bombs on deck which caused the holes? That's rather frightening, I can only imagine what a similar yield weapon being dropped from a dive bomber or even a ballistic missile can do...
Thanks for the info.

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You are welcome!

It is indeed frightening.. no kinetic energy involved.. Just ordnance exploding.

I wish for China to prosper and build a beautiful carrioer as well