Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

In Britain too we have the big American fast food chains every where and what they serve we also call fries, as they don't bear much resmblance to the traditional 'chip'!

The Iwo Jima is another design with a lot of unrealised potential, my shopping list for it would include stretching the hull at least 100ft, doubling the installed power by switching to a two shaft layout, reshaping the bow (squaring it off) and adding a portside deck extension for either an angled deck or simply increased parking for helos. I always imagined the proposed variant for Australia would include some of these features, and such a variant would have made a good replacement for the Essex class CVS's form the 70s onwards. had such a class been built, they would have been in the right place at the right time to be offered as replacements for the surviving Colossus and Majestic class CVLs around the world...

Someone at the pentagon missed a trick there. I thought the Americans were good at business, think of all those millions they missed out on...

I never really like the Iwo Jima class LPH. They looked "fat" and were to small. They did served the USN very well for 35+ years. I had a neighbor neighbor that was stationed aboard the USS Okinawa LPH-3. He said that ship's nickname was the "Broken-nawa"....

Did you know that two ships with the basic Iwo Jima hulls are still in service?

While not aircraft carriers the USS Blue Ridge LCC-19 & USS Mt Whitney LCC-20 still serve the USN as flag ships of the 7th & 6th fleets. The ships have been in service since 1970 & '71.

Both ships are "foward deployed" overseas in Japan and Italy.

Obi Wan Russell said:

The Iwo Jima is another design with a lot of unrealised potential, my shopping list for it would include stretching the hull at least 100ft, doubling the installed power by switching to a two shaft layout, reshaping the bow (squaring it off) and adding a portside deck extension for either an angled deck or simply increased parking for helos. I always imagined the proposed variant for Australia would include some of these features, and such a variant would have made a good replacement for the Essex class CVS's form the 70s onwards. had such a class been built, they would have been in the right place at the right time to be offered as replacements for the surviving Colossus and Majestic class CVLs around the world...

Someone at the pentagon missed a trick there. I thought the Americans were good at business, think of all those millions they missed out on...

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I've attached a sketch and specifications of the proposed Iwo Jima based VSTOL carrier for the RAN. It is a side on shot but the specs do give a good idea of its capability.

Source: Wings Across The Sea, Ross Gillett, Aerospace Publications, Sydney, 1988

Cheers

bd popeye said:

I never really like the Iwo Jima class LPH. They looked "fat" and were to small. They did served the USN very well for 35+ years. I had a neighbor neighbor that was stationed aboard the USS Okinawa LPH-3. He said that ship's nickname was the "Broken-nawa"....

Did you know that two ships with the basic Iwo Jima hulls are still in service?

While not aircraft carriers the USS Blue Ridge LCC-19 & USS Mt Whitney LCC-20 still serve the USN as flag ships of the 7th & 6th fleets. The ships have been in service since 1970 & '71.

Both ships are "foward deployed" overseas in Japan and Italy.

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Wel I did say I'd stretch the hull by at least 100ft, and that would cure the 'fat' appearance. The two command ships just illustrate the inherent versatility in carrier design. Previously, two members of the Colossus class were completed as aircraft maintenance ships to support the British Pacific Fleet (HMS Perseus and Pioneer), the former vessel was later used as trials ship for the very first steam catapult in the early fifties. Later another sister hams Triumph was converted in the late 50s early sixties to a heavy repair ship to support escort vessels in the far east, her hangar filled with workshops and cranes and deck houses on the flight deck. Unusually the forward flightdeck (rather than the aft) was retained for helo operations and a hangar built on deck adjacent to the island. She was needed in the falklands but had been sold for scrap just a few months earlier.

This is what I made of a Tarawa:
Small sky-jump on the port bow. Another elevator at the aft starbord. (Could have removed the central one)
Four Phalanx, one RAM on the front end of the island. One 8cell Mk41 for 32 ESSM. New search and FCR on top.



edit: with the remarks of Obi Wan, it now looks like this:
added a small deck extension, moved the Mk41 to the front of it to increase deck area at the aft and avoid debris on the deck.
With SH-60 sized helicopters, it should be able to operate them on the starbord side while launching Lightnig IIs. Additional parking space on the port.
With that sky-jump position, it should be able to even launch V-22s in the STO mode. If I'm to put the sky-jump to the very front I'd have to move it more to the center.
Anyway, should enhance Tarawa hull capability for sea-controll or attack role ...

Scratch said:

This is what I made of a Tarawa:
Small sky-jump on the port bow. Another elevator at the aft starbord. (Could have removed the central one)
Four Phalanx, one RAM on the front end of the island. One 8cell Mk41 for 32 ESSM. New search and FCR on top.

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Click to expand...

Very nice work, but I would point out that you'll have to delete the forward helo spot as the rotor blades will strike the side of the ski jump. That's why the ski jump is normally positioned as far forward as possible (the one fitted to Cavour is a bit of an exception, but the deck adjacent to it is for parking only and helos/harriers will launch/land from the 'runway' to port. I prefer to fit a portside deck extension not just to increase deck area, but because the sponson itself increases internal volume soaking up compartments currently occupying the space needed to extend the hangar forward (the LHAs and LHDs do not currently have full length hangars). On a Nimitz for example the portside deck sponson houses many of the workshops and other compartments displaced by the hangar istelf.

If the well deck is deleted in favour of another hangar deck (for and aviation oriented variant of the class) then the stern lift will have to retained as deck edge liftes cannot service a lower hangar deck (too close to the water). Such a ship would, due to accomodation requirements, most likely have to make do with a half length lower hangar serviced only by the stern lift (eliminating the need for a forward internal lift), so the ships would parallell the wartime HMS Indomitable and Implacable class "Hangar and a Half" carriers, which I always thought were disposed of too soon when they would have been ideal Commando Carriers without any major modification.

Nice drawing Scratch. Great observation Obi Wan.

I think the demensions of the well deck on a Tarawa class are 81m(268ft) x 23m(78ft). The height is at least 7.62m(25ft) maybe higher. Now does anyone have the demension of the vehicle storage area? I'm primarliy intrested in the height. I think it may be in the 4m to 5m range(15ft).

Any sort of conversion work on this class ship would be a major and expensive undertaking. But well worth the result if a country had about $2 billion USD to spend on an aircraft carrier.

bd popeye said:

Nice drawing Scratch. Great observation Obi Wan.

I think the demensions of the well deck on a Tarawa class are 81m(268ft) x 23m(78ft). The height is at least 7.62m(25ft) maybe higher. Now does anyone have the demension of the vehicle storage area? I'm primarliy intrested in the height. I think it may be in the 4m to 5m range(15ft).

Any sort of conversion work on this class ship would be a major and expensive undertaking. But well worth the result if a country had about $2 billion USD to spend on an aircraft carrier.

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a nice idea for a large harrier carrier but if you in ship prices you can afford a CVF [65000-75000]sized carrier which if you use the big is better maxim the CVF would be much better for contreys looking for a bigish carrier 30+ planes and helos

harryRIEDL said:

a nice idea for a large harrier carrier but if you in ship prices you can afford a CVF [65000-75000]sized carrier which if you use the big is better maxim the CVF would be much better for contreys looking for a bigish carrier 30+ planes and helos

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Very true. I was quoting US prices. Which I'm sure are much higher than the rest of the world.

the UK & French CVF or Italian Cavour would be an excellent buy..if it were for sale to the whole world.

The following concept envisioned for the LHA(R) was an interesting one:
One sky-jump and a lot of space for other activities on the deck. Since all aircraft would land vertically here, the islands in the center of the deck probably won't harm flight ops.
It seems rather big and is perhaps closer to a real CV than to a LHA.



BTW: Obi Wan, did you see the edit in my previous post showing the refined version?