Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

ahho said:

save on gas if it is nuclear:roll: somewhat environmental friendly.

popeye if i remember correctly, you said that nimitz would be the optimal size for a aircraft carrier, what about for helicopter and vertical takeoff fixed wing like harrier and f-35

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Well a Wasp Class or the Italian Cavour would be perfect. Of course it depends on what you want your air wing to do. If you want them to suppourt an amphibous landing. Well a Cavour would do well out fitted with 12Sea Harriers or JSF. For an light attack role an Wasp or Tarawa class with about 20-24 JSF or Sea Harriers would be perfect. A modified Wasp or Tarawa could carry more aircraft.

I feel that the USN could well modify a Wasp or Tarawa class for an light attack role. Modifications?? Turn that well deck into a second hangar and add a ski ramp.

bd popeye said:

Well a Wasp Class or the Italian Cavour would be perfect. Of course it depends on what you want your air wing to do. If you want them to suppourt an amphibous landing. Well a Cavour would do well out fitted with 12Sea Harriers or JSF. For an light attack role an Wasp or Tarawa class with about 20-24 JSF or Sea Harriers would be perfect. A modified Wasp or Tarawa could carry more aircraft.

I feel that the USN could well modify a Wasp or Tarawa class for an light attack role. Modifications?? Turn that well deck into a second hangar and add a ski ramp.

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When the RAN was looking for a replacement for Melbourne prior to the decision to scrap the fixed wing FAA, candidates included a slightly modified LHA which would have carried up to 30 Harriers and helos along with a more extensively modified aviation enhanced LHA. With the aviation version full load displacement would have increased to 53,000 tons, speed would have been 24 knots and it would have had the capacity to operate up to 50 Harriers and helos. Unfortunately I have never been able to find a plan for this version but I imagine that as the length remained the same as in the original LHA, the additional aviation capacity must have come from creating a second hangar.

Source: Wings Across The Sea, Ross Gillett, Aerospace Publications, Sydney, 1988

Re the airwing for a light VSTOL carrier I feel that the ideal mix to support amphibious operations or for light attack duties would be (depending on the size of the ship) 12- 24 F-35Bs, 4 SH-60s or EH101s for ASW/anti FAC, and 4 EH101s or OV-22s fitted for AEW duties. A large VSTOL carrier, like the CVF, could perhaps operate 36 F-35Bs, 6 EH101s for ASW and 4 EH101s for AEW when operating as a strike carrier.

For mid ocean escort duties some of the F-35Bs could be replaced by additional ASW helos.

Cheers

Unfortunately I have never been able to find a plan for this version but I imagine that as the length remained the same as in the original LHA, the additional aviation capacity must have come from creating a second hangar.

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Obi Wan once posted a drawing he made of a Tarawa class modifed with a ski ramp. I cannot find the picture.....

would have had the capacity to operate up to 50 Harriers and helos.

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50 Harriers??!! yikes and gadzooks I bet you that plan included turning that well deck into a hangar, Because the hangar on an Tarawa class is simply to small to accomdate that many aircraft.

Perhaps an aircraft elevator would have been fitted on the aft end of the ship in some fashion..Ahh this is a hint to out resident artist, Obi Wan, to draw up his version of such ship.

Jeff Head said:

As to the Spanish BPE, Strategic Projection Vessel, does anyone know or have pics of its actual construction? They've been at it for a good while and I am really anxious to see some pics of its progress.

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At a spanish forum I found the following three pics dated 24-4-07:




Another poster said a responsible worker at the yard told him though some modules suffered delays, they look forward to finish the ship at the end of this or in the first month of the coming year and give it to the navy a little over one year of testing after that.

edit: I know you don't see much on that pics, I'm still looking for better ones.
The only shows a real pic of the screws.

Scratch, you really can't tell from those pictures just what sort of ship that is. We know it is the Spanish ship. They have nothing to hide. If there are any full length pictures could you post the pics or a link? Thanks!

Quote: Obi Wan once posted a drawing he made of a Tarawa class modifed with a ski ramp. I cannot find the picture.....


One modified LHA coming up... Would you like fries with your order?

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Yes I would like fries with that! I thought you fellows in the UK called them "chips"?? I know you do!..

That ship,as you have drawn, with the new aircraft elevators and increased capacity could probally feild an air wing of 36 or more JSF and an assortment of helos. Or 6 or so V-22 Osprey. This modified Tarawa would be excellent for light attack and other missions.

bd popeye said:

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Yes I would like fries with that! I thought you fellows in the UK called them "chips"?? I know you do!..

That ship,as you have drawn, with the new aircraft elevators and increased capacity could probally feild an air wing of 36 or more JSF and an assortment of helos. Or 6 or so V-22 Osprey. This modified Tarawa would be excellent for light attack and other missions.

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I would offer the option of swapping the well deck and vehicle stowage for a second hangar deck, and switch propulsion from steam (manpower intensive) to GT to decrease running costs. I've never been a fan of full width ski jumps (eg Principe de Asturias, Adm Kuznetzov) on the grounds that as flight deck space is always at a premium, a full width ramp swallows up much needed deck parking space. On the spanish ship the forward quarter of the deck is unusable for deck parking, and on a small ship that can mean being able to operate two to four less aircraft due to having nowhere to put them. The installation on Hermes/Viraat always struck me as being the most sensible route to go, as the ramp need only be wide enough for the aircraft using it, and that is the model I used for the Tarawa. I also widened the deck forward over the former 5inch gun positions as this is another wasteful feature of the current ships. The Tarawas have had their guns removed, so why not plate over the positions and 'square off' the deck as in the Wasp class? I'm assuming money is the reason but steel is cheap and air is free...

I've never been a fan of full width ski jumps (eg Principe de Asturias, Adm Kuznetzov) on the grounds that as flight deck space is always at a premium, a full width ramp swallows up much needed deck parking space. On the spanish ship the forward quarter of the deck is unusable for deck parking, and on a small ship that can mean being able to operate two to four less aircraft due to having nowhere to put them.

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Deck space is at a premium on most aircraft carriers.

Too bad that the US is not willing to "sell off" the Tarawas. I feel they have years of life left in them with the proper modifications as you mention. The best would be getting rid of that labor intensive power plant and installing Gas Turbines as on the soon to be comissioned USS Makin Island LHD-8

Instead the USN may build a new class of LHA's. Which if built will give the USMC their own aircraft carriers. Which I feel they have wanted all along.

Obi Wan Russell said:

I would offer the option of swapping the well deck and vehicle stowage for a second hangar deck, and switch propulsion from steam (manpower intensive) to GT to decrease running costs. I've never been a fan of full width ski jumps (eg Principe de Asturias, Adm Kuznetzov) on the grounds that as flight deck space is always at a premium, a full width ramp swallows up much needed deck parking space. On the spanish ship the forward quarter of the deck is unusable for deck parking, and on a small ship that can mean being able to operate two to four less aircraft due to having nowhere to put them. The installation on Hermes/Viraat always struck me as being the most sensible route to go, as the ramp need only be wide enough for the aircraft using it, and that is the model I used for the Tarawa. I also widened the deck forward over the former 5inch gun positions as this is another wasteful feature of the current ships. The Tarawas have had their guns removed, so why not plate over the positions and 'square off' the deck as in the Wasp class? I'm assuming money is the reason but steel is cheap and air is free...

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I wonder how your concept compares with the modified LHA considered (briefly) by the RAN circa 1980? As I said before I have never seen a plan (or even a sketch), just a list of specifications. It would be interesting to find out if a drawing exists. There is a side on view in Wings Across the Sea of a the proposed gas turbine powered Modified Iwo Jima LPH, as this went to the next stage in the process. It shows a ski jump so I imagine that the RAN would have also wanted a ski jump in the Mod LHA.

I agree re your comments about the ski jump and I notice that the Spanish BPE has a ski jump on the port side only, leaving parking space for F-35s or helos on the starboard side.



Cheers

BTW Popeye, in Oz the influence of the American fast food chains has now resulted in 'chips' being called 'fries' on many menus and by most young people.