Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Spartan95

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You're behind the power curve Jeff. They've been recruiting (poaching?) ex RN staff for a few years now. The savings in training is less than you think. The RN and RAN are very differently equipped, and RN staff are clueless when confronted with the systems the RAN uses. They need a lot of remedial training to get to a level commensurate with their former RN rate or rank.

At least there's some sort of manpower inflow. Met a former RN boomer skipper in RAN uniform couple of years back now. Systems may be different, but they do have some commonality in doctrine, particularly the FPDA stuff both sides do.

I considered my opportunities in WA too. Sometimes I still do, sigh. If only WA wasn't so isolated. It's a two day drive across the Nullarbor ( Null Arbor, no trees ) from Perth to Adelaide with nothing in between, and there is pretty much nothing surrounding Perth and Freemantle to see. It's almost like living on an island.

Well, Margaret River is a nice enough get away that is only a few hours drive south. Bali, Indonesia is a favourite too. And Singapore is 4hrs flight away, which is the same flight time to another large Australian city.
 

bd popeye

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The steel has been cut for as of yet un-named CVN-79. Jeff..How's that petition going??? The picture is huge 2100 x 1050. Just click then click again at the photo hosting site for the full size view!

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Rear Adm. Michael McMahon, program executive office for Aircraft Carriers, said CVN 79 will soon have a name and a crew and will be a great ship. He also recognized the shipbuilders from Newport News and said, "While the carriers are recognized as a national asset so too is this shipyard and the shipbuilders that are in this yard."

The Newport News shipyard is performing this work under a construction preparation contract that allows for engineering, planning, long-lead time material procurement and initial manufacturing to begin before the full construction contract is awarded.

"The U.S. Navy must be ready to respond to the challenges that lay ahead," said Rep. Bobby Scott (Va-3). "To ensure the Navy's future readiness, shipbuilding must remain a top priority of our national defense strategy."

Full construction of the yet unnamed CVN 79 is anticipated to begin in late 2012 with delivery to the U.S. Navy scheduled for 2020. Construction is currently underway on the first ship of the class, Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78), with about 25 percent of the structural units already in dry dock.

"Having two carriers under construction within a five-year period is the kind of stability that we all benefit from – the Navy, the shipbuilders, our suppliers and our country," said Matt Mulherin, vice president and general manager for Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding. "It allows for the most efficient flow of the workforce from one ship to the next, and facilitates a learning curve. This stability is key to cost efficiency and to the health of our industrial base."

Ceremony attendees included Navy and government officials, and the Newport News employees building the carrier.

Rep. Rob Wittman (Va-1) thanked the shipbuilders for the work they were doing on CVN 79. "The men and women that serve can't do their duty without the great ships that you all put underneath them and the great quality of work that goes on here."

The Gerald R. Ford class will continue the legacy of highly capable U.S. Navy nuclear-powered aircraft carrier ship platforms. Enhancements incorporated into the design include flight deck changes, improved weapons handling systems and a redesigned island, all resulting in increased aircraft sortie generation rates. It will also include new nuclear power plants, increased electrical power generation capacity, allowance for future technologies and reduced workload for the sailors, translating to a smaller crew size and reduced operating costs for the Navy.

"To the shipbuilders that are here today, I hold you in very high regard," said Rep. Scott Rigell (Va-1). "From one American to another, thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for producing such fine vessels for our young men and women to serve on that keep us safe around the world."

Northrop Grumman Corporation is a leading global security company whose 120,000 employees provide innovative systems, products, and solutions in aerospace, electronics, information systems, shipbuilding and technical services to government and commercial customers worldwide. Please visit
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Obi Wan Russell

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Thanks for that. Beautiful sight isn't it? One we shall see again in a few years when the QEs enter service. Hope they bring back the British broken red and white centreline markings, Look distinctive!

Speaking of the deck markings, judging by those on the Ark this photo dates from around 1975-76, as after that the angled deck runway was repainted in a lighter colour than the rest of the flight deck.
 

bd popeye

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There are nearly 1500 hits on that photo of the Ark Royal and Nimitz since I posted it..

The Mistral deal between the RU and France may be in jeopardy!

The governments of Russia and France are reportedly in a deadlock over the price of the Mistral-class vessels. Russia is expected to procure two Mistral-class ships from France under a joint venture that will lead to an additional two vessels being constructed in Russia. While an agreement was reached in January 2010, final contracts detailing costs and deadlines have yet to be signed. Negotiations are now stalled over price.

Russia is only willing to pay EUR980 million for two Mistral-class ships, while France is insisting that it get at least EUR1.15 billion. According to Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin, the contract for all four vessels should only total EUR1.5 billion.

The issue is complicated by the fact that deputy chief of the Russian Navy Vice Adm. Nikolai Borisov signed a protocol with France in December 2010 that set the price of the contract at EUR1.15 billion. However, Borisov was supposedly not authorized to sign the document, and did so without consulting with Rosoboronexport and the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation. Regardless, France wants Russia to be held accountable.

The EUR1.15 billion price tag includes the construction of the first two ships (EUR980 million), some unidentified logistics expenses (EUR131 million), and crew training expenses (EUR39 million). However, Russia wants the price to also include the cost of construction licenses for the second pair and technical documentation costs. France insists that those items will cost an additional EUR90 million.

France is expected to issue a final proposal on March 15.

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And...

Russia and France have hit deadlock in talks over a deal for Moscow to buy Mistral helicopter carriers, with the two sides unable to agree on a price, a report said Thursday, citing Russian sources.

Russia insists it will pay no more than $980 million (706 million euros) for two Mistral-class ships, while France insists on a contract worth at least $1.15 billion, the Kommersant business daily reported.

"The two sides have a number of issues where they disagree in principle, primarily on the price of the ships that are being bought," Kommersant cited a source involved in the long-running negotiations as saying.

The Russian leadership may have to hold fresh talks on the deal with French President Nicolas Sarkozy after talks in Paris last week ended in an impasse, sources said.

The Russian agencies that sent delegates to the talks, including the arms export monopoly, Rosoboronexpert, and the industry and trade ministry, declined to comment to Kommersant.

Russia and France signed a landmark agreement in January on equipping the navy with four of the helicopter carriers, two of which would be largely built in France and two of which would be built in Russia.

Russia's top general said last month that Moscow could deploy the ships, which can also carry tanks, in the disputed Kuril islands, which are claimed by Japan.

The deal to build the Mistral for Russia would secure jobs in the French shipyards, but France's NATO allies have expressed concern about arming Russia with modern Western weaponry.

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Obi Wan Russell

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...And now the haggling begins! The Russians are getting the bargain of the century with this deal, they are awash with oil money at the moment, so the smart move would be to pay up and get the ball rolling. Instead this penny pinching could, as Popeye said, threaten to derail the whole deal, more likely delay it to the point where costs increase beyond the amount signed for already and only one ship gets built in France...

Here's some more Ark Royal nostalgia, with an eye on cross decking ops, and a picture of two sections of the new HMS Queen Elizabeth being joined together at Govan on the Clyde:
 

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Blitzo

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^ Interesting to see the modules of the QE being assembled with one under cover... Is that standard practice for most construction, and how difficult is it to expand on that slightly, and say build and join a large number of modules together, under cover from view before sending it into the dry dock to get the other parts and finer details to be added?

I ask of course, because of the talk that PLAN CV construction has supposedly begun and we've not seen a trace of it.
Cool picture of the QE as well, kind of like one of those cross section diagrams you see in books :D
 

delft

Brigadier
There are nearly 1500 hits on that photo of the Ark Royal and Nimitz since I posted it..

The Mistral deal between the RU and France may be in jeopardy!



And...
This is contradictory. One says $$, and even gives a EUR equivalent, the other says EUR's.

If the deal doesn't proceed, the Russians might take their ideas to the Chinese and might have two of that new design built in China and let China help modernize a Russian yard and have the other two built there. That would give them beside four helicopter carriers a very modern ship yard. It might also lead to China building a few similar helicopter carriers.
That looks like a good reason for the US to press France not to be difficult.
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
If the deal doesn't proceed, the Russians might take their ideas to the Chinese and might have two of that new design built in China and let China help modernize a Russian yard and have the other two built there. That would give them beside four helicopter carriers a very modern ship yard. It might also lead to China building a few similar helicopter carriers.

Personally, I doubt the Russians can bring themselves to buy any military hardware from PRC, especially ships. The Russians probably still consider themselves to be more advanced and have more experience with military hardware development than PRC. And for ships and subs, they probably still think that PRC is nowhere near as advanced since the Russians last sold the Kilos and Sovs.
 

delft

Brigadier
Personally, I doubt the Russians can bring themselves to buy any military hardware from PRC, especially ships. The Russians probably still consider themselves to be more advanced and have more experience with military hardware development than PRC. And for ships and subs, they probably still think that PRC is nowhere near as advanced since the Russians last sold the Kilos and Sovs.

You may well be right, but they may start to look at the possibilities. They may also be thinking of variants of the Mistral concept they may propose. They would be providing the design and the Chinese would build a pair and help them to build the second pair. After all, they already acknowledge that they do need help with rebuilding a ship yard.
 
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