Air war: F18s vs. PLAAF

Roger604 said:

Are cruise missiles a threat? I am under the impression that Tomahawk cruise missiles are nothing that cheap SAM systems can't handle (assuming the cruise missiles are shot at protected assets rather than unprotected targets). They're slow and they can be spotted far away from their intended target.

Of course, if they were used in conjunction with F-22 escorted B-2's that would be serious threat.

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TLAM's are much of a threat. High sub-sonic, low RCS, and flying nap of the earth missile is very hard to detect, much less shoot down. Don't get me wrong, they can be shot down. But the percentage shot down compared to the ones that actually hit something is very low.

Thank you Rommel for the effort giving us the list of bases. So, kadena base in okinawa has 3 squadrons of F15c, misawa in japan has a two squadrons of f16 (thats the 35th fighter wing), in south korea there's three squadrons of f16 and a squadron of A-10, in elemendorf, alaska theres two squadrons of f15c, one squadron of f15E. In Eielson, alaska theres one squadron of f16 and one squadron of a-10. On defencetalk.com some members have said one squadron of f22 has replaced the f15 in alaska, elemendorf.
Also, it has been said some f15c are placed in guam, with the bomber wings. I shall work with one squadron of f15c there. All the f16s mentioned here are block 30 or/and block 40.

If someone wishes to offer different data than what i have listed here, i would ask them to do so, before i go on. Data on numbers of awacs and tanker airplanes would also be nice, tankers especially important for guam and japan stationed planes). Also, if there is some concrete data on chinese planes / bases (PLAAF and PLANAF) it would be good to post it here.

There's kitty hawk in japan, of course... how many days would it need to get to taiwan? would it even go for taiwan? Should we count with one more carrier? How many days till it entered the fight? Would US in your opinion wait till she had extra forces in the theater or would it start defending taiwain with whatever she has at the moment?

Where the carriers are...



Where the Expediationary Strike Groups




This a bit old info (2003) but it shows typically where US naval forces are deployed

According to that link, current USN plan is to have up to 6 carrier groups near taiwan within 30 days and two more within 90 days.

So, according to that and usual position of other carriers around the world, id say its fair to say that USN could get one carrier within 7 days and three carriers within 15 days to the taiwain area. rest goes like the link said.

Still, no one is answering the question - when would US start the strike? with what forces? Where? Only after those questions have been answered can we finally start to try answering the f18s vs PLAAF question. Of course i can supply my guesses but then you'd just say 'no thats not right'. So please give your guesses first, i will likely accept them.

Totoro said:

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According to that link, current USN plan is to have up to 6 carrier groups near taiwan within 30 days and two more within 90 days.

So, according to that and usual position of other carriers around the world, id say its fair to say that USN could get one carrier within 7 days and three carriers within 15 days to the taiwain area. rest goes like the link said.

Still, no one is answering the question - when would US start the strike? with what forces? Where? Only after those questions have been answered can we finally start to try answering the f18s vs PLAAF question. Of course i can supply my guesses but then you'd just say 'no thats not right'. So please give your guesses first, i will likely accept them.

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That depends on the situation and how critical the position of the Taiwanese military. If they are holding, all the USN has to do is sit back, provide logistical, intelligence, and surveillance supports, as well as deep interdiction strikes on supply sites, concentrations points, communications relay, etc with TLAM to frustrate PLA time tables and reinforcement.

USN approach in regarding China is to attack their command and control, surveillance, and communications. This is done with TLAM, CALCM, and B-2 bomber, degrading the ability for coordination and communication. The objective here is to isolate units and prevent them from talking to each other so they can be destroyed piece meal. If you have 200 J-11 spread out in 10 airfields (20 each), and communication between airfields are jammed, you can only send 20 at a time and cannot coordinate with the other 9. 20 is much easier to destroy than 200.

By the time the PLAAF contends with the F/A 18, they are blind and deaf, and make for easy kills. USA never fights fair.

how? the cvbgs hold the nearest supply of aircraft and ships that could jam china. otherwise, chinas free to use its equipment. so any pre combat equipment meant to destroy the nemiy's sense would have to arrive with the cvbgs, not before. so fi your theory is true, the u.s would probably arm the initial penetrating fighter waves with emp weapons. to ensure they are delivered, the first wave would probably somprise of b-2s or f-22s. but neither of these aircraft are carrier capable, and i doubt they can hold emp weapons(maybe b-2, not f-22), as they have internal weaposn bays that can only fire a limited range of munitions. now, i might be wrong, because the b-2s and f-22s might be able to deliver emps, but not to our knowledge.

their are chances the emps are fired with a tomahawk, but that would probably tip the chinese off. they would simply turn their radars off when the emps were about to hit.

how? the cvbgs hold the nearest supply of aircraft and ships that could jam china. otherwise, chinas free to use its equipment. so any pre combat equipment meant to destroy the nemiy's sense would have to arrive with the cvbgs, not before

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The USMC keeps an E/A-6B squadron based at MCAS Iwakuni Japan. So there's the US ECM. You guys know that the USN/USMC team have 144 Prowlers. That's all of the ECM aircraft in the US military.

those e/a-6bs are supposedly entirely for defence. i cant imagine the reaction from the world community if the u.s actually started using japan as a base to launch ATTACKs on enemy countries. i dont even think the japanese would approve.

MIGleader said:

those e/a-6bs are supposedly entirely for defence. i cant imagine the reaction from the world community if the u.s actually started using japan as a base to launch ATTACKs on enemy countries. i dont even think the japanese would approve.

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EA-6B are carrier capable. Doesn't require foreign runways.

MIGleader said:

how? the cvbgs hold the nearest supply of aircraft and ships that could jam china. otherwise, chinas free to use its equipment. so any pre combat equipment meant to destroy the nemiy's sense would have to arrive with the cvbgs, not before. so fi your theory is true, the u.s would probably arm the initial penetrating fighter waves with emp weapons. to ensure they are delivered, the first wave would probably somprise of b-2s or f-22s. but neither of these aircraft are carrier capable, and i doubt they can hold emp weapons(maybe b-2, not f-22), as they have internal weaposn bays that can only fire a limited range of munitions. now, i might be wrong, because the b-2s and f-22s might be able to deliver emps, but not to our knowledge.

their are chances the emps are fired with a tomahawk, but that would probably tip the chinese off. they would simply turn their radars off when the emps were about to hit.

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We are not talking all out war but a limited action, right? Eitherway why would you say the carriers would be the only option? A B52 can carry 12-20 CALCMs right? Get 6 of those B52s with a 600+ mile range weapon and
have 72-120 stealthy cruise misslies to deal with. And no carrier really needed, other than to provide CAP for the 52s...
:roll:

Fighters carrying EMP weapons :coffee: - Sharks with Frickin' Laserbeams

So when the EMP loaded Tomahawks or CALCMs :coffee: are cruising into PRC radar coverage, the PRC radar operators would know they were EMP weapons and turn off their radars??

those e/a-6bs are supposedly entirely for defence. i cant imagine the reaction from the world community if the u.s actually started using japan as a base to launch ATTACKs on enemy countries. i dont even think the japanese would approve.

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Wh3re do you get that? They would be happy on a carrier.
Hmmm... back to this theoretical excersice. F15's from Kadena would be the closest but that probably would not fly for political reasons. They would still have a 3200 mile round trip ticket tanking in and out at least once each plus time on station. I bet that would make for a real long day.... Guam is 5400 round trip... Damn long way to go.

US fighter aircraft have flown from Europe to the Gulf with weapons hanging in case needed. 3000 one way or so. Routinely fly across the Atlantic, 3600 one way from New England to Frankfurt. Back in 86 the Varks ran from UK to Libya and back (no shortcuts thru French airspace), 6K+ mile jaunt across the Atlantic and Med... Oooh, the protests outside of HQEUCOM were big that day :roll:

So it is theoretically DOABLE and has been attempted a bit but not with shots fired AFAIK.

Would be nice to go out of ROC but that is really not politicaly feasible either

Shucks, back to some F18C/E/F flying CAP and maybe SEAD, with maybe some BUFFs loaded with CALCMs. A couple VLS 688s to lob a few inshore, TLAMS from Burkes and TICOs. A few options available.... BTW, what was the target?? :nana: