b787
Captain
You are still being dishonest the RAF pilots said the Sukhois were better
so you have a no point, but it is useless to continue arguing if you do not want to admit it, and by the way they never mentioned the Tornados
Aerodynamics thread
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
- Start date
so you have a no point, but it is useless to continue arguing if you do not want to admit it, and by the way they never mentioned the Tornados
B787, in English, saying something has superior maneuvering capabilities is not necessarily the same as saying it is better than something else.
It could be a candid admission that the SU-30MKIs are good, without saying that they are better than the Typhoons.
The context does not make it clear at all that that is what they meant.
Also, please stop making such definitive statements about other poster's honesty. I have just showed you a clear case where pmichael could be basing his own assertions on common use of the English language which would support his own contention.
I am not saying he is right...or that you are right. I am saying that you should not accuse someone of being dishonest in such cases. It will lead to arguments, warnings and suspension.
b787
Captain
I understand your point in terms to be cordial and friendly towards other people
However i do not think the report is so ambiguous, why?
let us go by words candid
this word does not mean they are lying but to the contrary very honest
Superior does not mean inferior neither equal, thus i do not think the RAF pilots are saying the jet is good but still inferior to the Typhoon, what they say is very straight forward
so to be honest i do not see any ambiguity in order to defend the Eurfighter typhoon, what i can believe is the Typhoon with avionics and superior speed envelope thanks to supercrusing might have an edge over the Su-30MKI, but i can not see neither see any ambiguity about the fact the TVC helps the SU-30MKI to point its nose like F-22 does quicker than the Typhoon.
What i think is he is unwilling to see what the article really means, the typhoon as an overall aircraft is better, i think so, just by the fact it supercruises and its delta wing is designed for a high speed interceptor, i could say it is a better BVR fighter and slightly less impressive in low speeds, that is what i think the RAF pilots are saying.
No, I do not think you understand completely.
Of course I am telling you that you would be best served to not call people dishonest when you really have no idea whether in their hearts they are or not...at least not in this case.
But in addition to that, there are nuances in ever language by787. In English I can say that you have superior skills...or that you have a superior rating...without ever saying or implying that you are better than me.
I doubt very seriously, having known numerous fighter pilots, that those RAF pilots either said, or meant, that those SU-30s and their pilots were better than their own hot Typhoons in their hands.
I believe they were giving the other pilots due, and credit for being very good.
Just to get some things straight.
I can post additional articles which clearly state that the Eurofighter was superior than the Indian Su-30 - like .
It's interesting that the quotes which are supposed to prove the opposite only talking about "RAF pilots" for the 2007 excercise, but the deal is that the RAF pilots were flying Tornados and Harriers for the most parts, but you can't find any quotes which really claiming that the Su-30 was better than the Eurofighter in 2007.
Also I'm not claiming that TVC can't be an important part of an aircraft design. Though I'm not sharing the hype back in the 90/early 00s that TVC would render all non-TVC aircraft obsolete.
And I get the impression that some people looking too much to the TVC for some of the stunning characteristics of the F-22. F-35 and F-22 share stunning subsonic AoA stats because of the large twintail sections.
I can post additional articles which clearly state that the Eurofighter was superior than the Indian Su-30 - like .
It's interesting that the quotes which are supposed to prove the opposite only talking about "RAF pilots" for the 2007 excercise, but the deal is that the RAF pilots were flying Tornados and Harriers for the most parts, but you can't find any quotes which really claiming that the Su-30 was better than the Eurofighter in 2007.
Also I'm not claiming that TVC can't be an important part of an aircraft design. Though I'm not sharing the hype back in the 90/early 00s that TVC would render all non-TVC aircraft obsolete.
And I get the impression that some people looking too much to the TVC for some of the stunning characteristics of the F-22. F-35 and F-22 share stunning subsonic AoA stats because of the large twintail sections.
b787
Captain
The ambiguity you are talking here does not exist, there is a context and the context does not support the ambiguity,
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b787
Captain
Where is an India pilot supporting that view? you are quoting a British pilot from a blog, if it is superior why India did not buy it?
The Su-35 can supercruise and in the opinion of Russian experts Su-30MKi can beat the Rafale, who am i going to believe?
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Sorry...I read the entire article.
The one quote talks about the SU-30 had superior maneuvering abilities just as the RAF pilots had studied for. That does not mean or say that they were superior to the Typhoon. That statement is never made.
It indicates that the RAF pilots had studied the SU-30s, new they were going to have very good maneuvering capability...and then indicated that they did.
You can read it anyway you want...but the in context statement compares what they had studied against what they experienced. Those pilots never said that the SU-30 was better than the Typhoons. You (and perhaps others) are putting those words in their mouths.
When you find me a direct quote from an RAF pilot that directly says the SU-30s were superior to the Typhoons...get back with me. Until then...people are just interpreting what someone else said about what the RAF pilots said.
When the RAF pilots speak for themselves...this is the type of thing they say:
"We’ve flown against the big Sukhoi’s (the Su-30) and they’re no match for us, even today. They’re too heavy and even when they try that trick (using TVC) they can’t shake a Typhoon off."