Aerodynamics thread

[jobjed]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

read vectors the word Thrust vectoring says it, when you read about you will understand lift is a vector.

when you read about physics you opine, then you will understand why the jet turns tighter

Grammar too terrible, unable to comprehend.

 

[MiG-29]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

Grammar too terrible, unable to comprehend.

i recommend you read physics and you will understand at least read about what vectors are influencing a jet in a turn then an idea will snap you, yes VECTORING means the thrust is a vector.

 

[jobjed]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

i recommend you read physics and you will understand at least read about what vectors are influencing a jet in a turn then an idea will snap you, yes VECTORING means the thrust is a vector.

Here's a great idea, if you're so smart, why don't you enlighten us on the "vectors" influencing a jet in a turn. And hopefully by extension, be able to convince us that TVC is able to increase lift to a degree that tail planes can't.

 

[duncanidaho]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

lift, weight, thrust and drag are used as vectors, in a turn a jet is under the influence of several vectors lift weight drag and thrust, all these vectors have magnitude and direction.

You are creating a pitch up or pitch down force by vectoring the thrust.


The word is Vectoring

I hope you know what lift is and how you can produce lift.

Thrust Vectoring in the atmophere can generate a force that shows in the same direction of the lift, but it can't generate lift.

Can you generate lift in the vacuum? NO. But will Thrust Vectoring work in vacuum? YES

 

[Engineer]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

haha why do not you read physics?

lift is a vector, the nozzles deflect the thrust changing the thrust vector direction, basicly the nozzles act like tailplanes increasing the turn rate.


Go and read physics

LMAO! Take my advise and retake first year physics. Thrust vectoring has nothing to do with lift. Lift is a force, whereas change in turn rate is a moment and not a force.

 

[Engineer]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

thrust can be vectored, do you understand that?

it means its direction changes, thus you get shorter take offs, you can trim the flight, use it as a roll or pitch or yaw device

Lift is a force, whereas change in pitch, roll and yaw from a TVC is a moment, not a force. That's the difference between canard and TVC. The former can generate force as well as moment, whereas the vectoring from the latter can only result in moment. The former is a control as well as a lift device, whereas the latter is just a pure control like an aileron or a rudder.

The F/A-22's nozzle, on the other hand, is the first vectoring nozzle. That means the pilot can move, or vector, the nozzle up and down by 20 degrees.The gases coming out of the vector nozzle help push the airplane's nose up or down. This vectoring increases the roll rate of the plane by 50 percent, making it much more maneuverable than other fighters.

he latter three surfaces are common to all airplanes:
The elevator controls the pitch (up-and-down movement) of the airplane.
The rudder controls the yaw -- the left-and-right motion along the vertical axis.
The ailerons control the rolling motion along the horizontal axis.
With the vector nozzle, the F/A-22 has a fourth type of control surface.
The F119 engines also give the F/A-22 a high thrust-to-weight ratio. That means the engines can actually handle many times the airplane's weight, allowing the plane to accelerate and maneuver very quickly.

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.Today’s most maneuverable fighters use thrust vectoring, which can make a jet turn faster and more tightly.

Powered by Pratt & Whitney F119 turbofans, each with 35,000 pounds of thrust, the F-22A—the Air Force’s newest fighter—sports a nozzle that can direct exhaust thrust up or down as much as 24 degree


“Our [one-on-one] tactics have changed to incorporate the ‘post-stall’ regime, where other aircraft cannot operate,” explains Captain John “Rocks” Wagemann, who flies the F-22A in the First Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia. Thrust vectoring enables the pilots to fly up and over in a very tight arc, Wagemann says, and “gives us the nose authority to turn the jet while the wings are stalled, similar to a controlled flat spin.”

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None of this actually says thrust vectoring produces lift, contrary to your fantasy. Turning the jet while the plane has stalled is called post-stall maneuver. It looks cool in an airshow, but

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in an actual air combat.

 

[Engineer]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

read about vectors the word Thrust vectoring says it all, when you read about vector resultant, magnitude or direction you will understand lift is a vector.

when you read about physics you opine, then you will understand why the jet turns tighter and the lift force is increased by the pitch up force thrust vectoring is creating

lift, weight, thrust and drag are used as vectors, in a turn a jet is under the influence of several vectors lift weight drag and thrust, all these vectors have magnitude and direction.

You are creating a pitch up or pitch down force by vectoring the thrust.


The word is Vectoring

Too much fantasy. Thrust vectoring has to do with the component in thrust, and is not related to lift in anyway. It should be pretty obvious since it is "thrust vectoring", not "lift vectoring". LMAO!

Pitch up is a moment, lift is a force. The act of pitching up does not generate a force. It is the aerodynamics of the airframe that generates lift, and the maximum amount of lift that can be generated is fixed regardless of whether there is TVC or not. Simple flight dynamics.

 

[Quickie]

I do not intend to be dragged into this kind of discussion again but for correction sake, the author of the above linked article made an error in saying that the rudder loses effectiveness at high AOA. It should be the elevators that loses effectiveness or controllability at high AOA, something which we already know and something which doesn't apply to canards. Suffice to say we've discussed a number of times previously on how the canards have an advantage in this kind of situation over the tail control surfaces/elevators mainly by referencing the explanation on the subject in Dr Song's paper.

 

[ahadicow]

Thrust Vectoring would be generating lift if it is balanced across the center of gravity of the airplane, i.e. at the front. So a plane with a front lifting thrust vector, namely VTOL, in theory, could use their trust vector to asist turning and compensate for the loss of lift, at a greater sacrefice of airspeed.

The speech Engineer posted hit the head with a nail. If you know your opponent had engaged trust vectoring, you know they had just blown off a ton of energy. Thus when you lift up your plane, there is no way they can follow you without stalling.

 

[MiG-29]

Re: J-20 The New Generation Fighter Thread IV

Lift is a force, whereas change in pitch, roll and yaw from a TVC is a moment, not a force. That's the difference between canard and TVC. The former can generate force as well as moment, whereas the vectoring from the latter can only result in moment. The former is a control as well as a lift device, whereas the latter is just a pure control like an aileron or a rudder.



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taiplane are airfoils, they do generate lift.