2019 India-Pakistani border clash

Huh? Jordanian F-16 with Taiwanese AIM-120?

plawolf said:

I feel getting into the politics of why India decided to launch a military operation will just lead to endless claims, counter claims and ultimately a flame war.

That is why I wanted to focus this thread on the factual element of the actual engagement to try and steer clear of that.

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Agreed in principle although to be gut honest, on something like this is it extremely difficult to not discuss the political aspects because ultimately conflicts and the deployment of military force is done via politics of nations. In this case even more so as we are talking sovereign states We can only hope that even if the political aspects of it are discussed it can be done in a factual concise fashion (instead of hearsay and nationalism) with an open mind and self regulation

Hyperwarp said:

Huh?

Jordanian F-16 with Taiwanese AIM-120?

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And apparently Jordanian jet is still active and Jordanian according to the site.

Stuff is confusing right now.

At least we know the guy doing the shooting down was in JF-17. It was visible behind him.

There’s no reason for Pakistan to deny using F16, there is no agreement not to use them.

Besides why would pakistan opt to use their less capable craft to penetrate into defended airspace? It makes sense to send JF-17 block IIs for a high risk mission.

ask tsai ingwen why a taiwan missile is used by pakistan

plawolf said:

If that is second pilot, why only announce the capture of one?

Also, looking at the background, there looks to be another two people hands up also. Seems more likely those might be the villages who first came across the Indian pilot and started to beat the crap out of him. The PA soldiers might have had to place them temporarily under arrest to stop them beating the Indian pilot even more.

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Hi,

There is another video of a young man whop was involved in the capture of the Pilot---.

Accordingly---once the pilot realized he was in pakistan kashmir territory---he pulled out his weapon and started shooting at the civilians who coming to take him down.

Lucky for him that he did not kill any civilians and the army personal arrived on the scene.

The anger of the villagers was being shot at and not him being an indian pilot---.

Video of the downed MiG-21 -

This is the only downing that is confirmed by images and videos.

nvm i give up on speculating on any of these.
fake news media too powerful

Biscuits said:

Looking at the image of the 2nd crash, it at least doesn’t look like a single engine fighter.

Hard to say whether it is MKI though. It could be MiG 29 too.

I would lean towards MKI though. This morning, Indian media reported on Su30s intercepting Pakistani jets. Then after Pakistan claimed the shoot down, they retconned the role of the Su30s and claim they were actually all MiG 21s. No one ever named MiG 29.

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Twitter member confirmed F16. Former Jordianian sold to Pakistan.

Why is the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile of any importance? It is common knowledge that AIM-120s can also be fired from JF-17s. It is safe to assume that PAF F-16s were providing escort protection to the JF-17 strike group. ISPR would be correct in stating that F-16s weren't used, since JF-17s were the only aircraft that entered indian occupied Kashmir to strike at non-military targets. So Pakistan has not lied about anything here. If anyone ever remembered, America sold Pakistan the F-16 (albeit ... Block-52s) are to be used for defensive purposes, not offensive missions. Parts of the AIM-120 missile found would have been from the one which shot down indian MiGs. It is irrelevant whether they're from Taiwan, Jordan or Timbaktoo. I disregard any indian missile claims, because these are easily debunked.

Unless india shows the ejection seat, PAF Pilot (alive or Shaheed), or the wreckage of the F-16, nothing india can say, is believable. Pakistan provided full coverage of the downed indian MiG-21, also captured their pilot "and kept him alive". So indians can keep barking like a bunch of rabid dogs for all I care. Provide F-16 wreckage footage, ejection seat or PAF Pilot. Otherwise your claims amount to ZERO.

Word of advice for my fellow countrymen, "Careful ... that you don't step into the bullshit!"

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Twitter member confirmed F16. Former Jordianian sold to Pakistan.

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Those military fatigues look Pakistan Army, not indian. Anyone can claim anything on the internet. We ought to be more objective in deseminating the evidence.