2018 Zhuhai Show Land Systems
- Thread starter by78
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
SinoSoldier
Colonel
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
lynx with 40mm telescoping ammo. apparently the video was shown at Zhuhai.
It's all about the Burn.
The unburnt propellant at the front of the round acts as a seal for the gasses behind the projectile.
The case in this farther seals. As some of the rounds are saboted or capped
Biggest issues with caseless are the propellent pulling double duty. It's the propellent and case.
You need a propellent that won't break or deform, or prematurely ignite and when it does it has to burn uniformly and cleanly.
Metal or polymer cases can break and disrupt the cycle of operation but a quick cleaning or simple remediate action can fix it.
If that happens with caseless you now have additional pressure in the chamber during firing that's dangerous. Caseless are sealed actions so you need to break open the chamber assuming you realize what just happened.
Cased weapons use there spent cartridge as a heat sink. Reducing the cumulative heat build-up.
The case also helps as propellant doesn't burn perfectly it often leaves residual traces. Those traces are ejected in the spent case. That doesn't happen in caseless meaning every shot has the potential for a big boom.
Farther complications cone as the rounds need to not be adversely affected by solvents used in cleaning, lubricants used in the moving parts and to protect the metals. Environmental factors like humidity and potential exposure to chemical agents.
It's funny that you mentioned G11.
G11 was submitted to the US Army ACR program. Steyr also submitted a rifle firing polymer cased telescoped saboted flechetes.
Around that same time the Army was also looking into new potential medium caliber automatic cannons.
The US partnered with the Germans for semi telescoped Super 40 a necked out 30mm round with a 40mm shell. 50 Super shot a 35mm round necked out to 50mm.
This was then followed by the Army working on a 45mm cased Telescoped system with the British and French that ended up becoming the basis of The 40 CTA.
Which brings us to a point made in the article quoted by @Hendrik_2000
The joint BAE/Nexter CTA rounds are a 40x255mm projectile but a 65x255mm case. That means the chamber is larger still to seat and seal.
The G11 and its ammo had multiple issues. IIRC the main one was that you needed a perfect seal before you could ignite the ammo. The way they achieved this in the G11 was with a complex rotating mechanism which was both expensive to manufacture and arguably prone to failure. It was also bulky and heavy which somewhat negated the benefit of the lower weight of the caseless rounds. There were also some reports of premature ignition of rounds when the rifle was too hot after prolonged firing periods. Also like @TerraN_EmpirE said the ejected brass in a cased round helps dissipate the heat.
Caseless rounds to a degree are quite old. There were Chassepot rifles with paper cartridges over a century ago. However they had issues with both water and heated barrels. The Japanese had a cannon which fired caseless rounds in WW2. But the projectiles had a really low velocity.
I think the cased telescoped rounds like the ones used in the LSAT rifle would be a great replacement for regular NATO rounds. Still it probably needs more field tests.
Caseless rounds to a degree are quite old. There were Chassepot rifles with paper cartridges over a century ago. However they had issues with both water and heated barrels. The Japanese had a cannon which fired caseless rounds in WW2. But the projectiles had a really low velocity.
I think the cased telescoped rounds like the ones used in the LSAT rifle would be a great replacement for regular NATO rounds. Still it probably needs more field tests.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Well three small points here.
- it was the LSAT light machine gun not rifle. They chose to start with the LMG first as the army has had a love hate relationship with the M249 and M240. They love it when it works hate it when it doesn't and really don't like how much it weighs. There was also the XM8 program. There are claims of a rifle but until about 2 years back not solid evidence. By that point however the name had changed from LSAT to Cased Teliscoped Small Arms Systems or CTSAS.
- adoption of Cased Teliscoped Small Arms is not limited to the rounds as you need new weapons for it. You can't simply retrofit existing systems. Right now in the small arms arena everything is on the same level. There is no system that breaks the mold. We just added optics are now looking at sound/flash signature and potential for armor piercing. But these tweaks add weight. So we need to shave it. CT does that without a huge amount of sacrifice.
- It's not limited to rifles. Although I don't see pistols as really even needing CT heavier weapons I think as well suited. I mean grenades, heavy machine guns. We already have the 40CTA in Europe and the Chinese equal. The original source of the idea was the GAU 7/A a failed 25mm CTA gatling Canon with combustible case, not caseless but combustible so that the case burns away during firing. This system was offered as a replacement for the M61 Vulcan Cannon for the then developmental F15. There has been said to be work on adapting it for even larger cannons like 105mm shells.
by78
General
A few more batches of high-resolution images from the just-concluded Zhuhai Airshow...
Active self-defense system.
NORINCO's export tracked IFV, with a rear ramp/door combo... This year, the turret mounted ATGM launchers feature a more protected enclosure than the one displayed at the 2016 Zhuhai show...
Active self-defense system.
NORINCO's export tracked IFV, with a rear ramp/door combo... This year, the turret mounted ATGM launchers feature a more protected enclosure than the one displayed at the 2016 Zhuhai show...
