bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Not even to power Civilian Shipping, what a pity with china's growing ship building market
2009 Update to Jeff Head's PLAN pages
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Not even to power Civilian Shipping, what a pity with china's growing ship building market
That's not true. US diesel engine makers like Caterpillar ships lots of huge marine diesels to China for use in civilian shipping. For example the two 90 meter super yachts that were made in China by Yanting-Raffles had Caterpillar diesels.
I did not know that. Interesting. My guess is that, if the Chinese equipment performs well and reliably, you will see the Chinese units used from here on out.
South Africa's Umkhonto-VL SAM is IR lock-on after launch, fire-and-forget missile. Currently it's used in 8-cel VLS config, though I think it should be able to be used from above-deck RAM style launchers.
My original point was that short range missiles typically have 8km-15km range, and doesn't make a lot of sense to put it in a VLS system on Frigates or Destroyers. The bigger VLS cels on frigates and destroyers are better utilized for medium and long range missiles.
The French is supposed to be working on quad-packing the VT-1 missile in Sylver VLS cels. IMO this is not an efficient use of space, they're better off using the VLS cels for ASTER-30 SAM, and bolt a couple above-deck short-range SAM-CIWS systems. Just my $0.02.
Since this is PLAN discussion, let's go back to PLAN ships. Unconfirmed internet sources claim that the FL-3000N carries 24 rounds and uses enlarged TY-90 SAM with dual seekers and fire-and-forget capability:
Now, if I was going to design an AAW PLAN destroyer, I'd use the large VLS system for long-range missiles, and bolt a couple FL-3000N above deck for short-range defense. I wouldn't quad-pack short-range SAM's into the VLS system, it'd be a waste.
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Very interesting. Outside of the fin stabilization (whereas the US RAM is a rolling airframe for stabilization and which gives it certain advantages in flight), the system looks, of course, like a carbon copy of the U.S. RIM-116 RAM mounting and missile basic characteristics (ie. RF/IR guidance, etc.)
Apparently the Chinese FN-3000N system does hold 24 missiles in the launcher whereas the U.S. RIM-116 RAM system is either a 21 or 11 (for the LCS and other smaller vessles) round system.
The U.S. RAM will be installed on thr Navy's LSDs, LPDs, LHAs, CVNs and LCS vessels. A total of 74 ships are planned and many of them already have the system installed. In addition, the U.S. RAM system has been exported to the Turkish Navy, German Navy, Hellenic Navy, Egyptian Navy, and the Republic of Korea Navy.
I expect if the FL-3000N is successful, we will see it on many PLAN vessels and that it too ill find an export market.
I think currently the Mk-49 launcher w/21 rounds, and the 11-round SeaRAM are both 6-7+ tons loaded. So the weight difference isn't that much. The LCS-1 has RAM and LCS-2 has SeaRAM. I've read web sites claiming that Raytheon is working on a lightweight 11-round RAM, but suspect they're confused with the SeaRAM variant.
If the ship was built with using RAM in mind, lightweight FAC's like those in German and Greek navies (400-500 tons) has no problem being equipped with full sized 21-round RAM launcher.
The Chinese FL-3000N claims to have 4, 8, 12, and 24 round versions to accommodate vessels of various sizes. However, so far we've only seen mock-ups and posters. The relationship between TY-90 and the FL-3000N's missile is unverified. Actually, I think the mock-ups are more likely copied from Mk-49 launcher and RIM-116 missile's outer appearance, the actual product may vary.
RIM-116 missile:
FL-3000N's missile:
I understand that certain designs will look similar because of optimal aerodynamics, but doesn't the FL-3000N's missile model look almost exactly like the RIM-116 in the front?? We've yet to see an actual product, so who's to say that they didn't just make a model copy for the display?
Your points are very well taken...but now that the PLAN has shown it to the public in this manner, I bet that the finished product comes close to looking lik this.
Here's a comparison of the two launchers, FL-30000N first and then RAM.:
Not a exact copy, but close down to the access panels on the side.
In any event, if the PLAN develops such a weapon system that is effective, and deploys it, it will be a significant step forward for them in defnse of their vessels, and will undoubtedly be something that will find an export market for them like the RAM has for the U.S.
SeaRAM is a further innovation. I'd like to see SeaRAM with larger missile capacity.
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I had another poster on another forum indicate to me that he thought that the TY-90 was a rolling airframe. I indicated that I had read nothing at Jane's, on the Chinese blogs, on Chinese Defense sites, or anywhere else that said this...and that to the contrary they indicated that this missile had always been strictly fin stabilized.
Are you aware of anything different?
the missile has to be based on something that is already in existence. Took a look at the pictures, it certainly doesn't look like TY-90 or FN-6. It seems to be closely related to the QW series. It could be based on QW-3. As I said before though, considering that we see this up for export before it ever appearing on a PLAN ship, I don't think this has much hope.