09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Anlsvrthng]

Quick submarine calculation :
600 M/mm^2 steel, 10 /11 meter diameter, 300/600 meter diving deep:
600 meter diving deep, 12 metric ton for each meter of submarine
300 meter diving deep , 6 metric ton for each meter of submarine

Diameter increase proportionally increase the mass ( 11 meter --13.2 ton/m)

Means a 100 meter, 600 meter diving deep submarine hull on its own has a 1200 tons (0 safety margin : ) ) , and without any internal support structure and so on.

With 50% safety it become 2400 tons .
The same for 300 meter is 1200 tons.

For 600 meter the leftover non pressure vessel mass is 50 tons / meter.

The leftover mass can be used for machines, weapons, propulsion, sound damping and so on.

 

[Brumby]

The cost of the 093B will likely never be made public, hence we have to estimate the cost.

The subs don't have to be exactly the same as you're just nitpicking.
Broadly speaking, they all have the same mission, which is to be as quiet as possible, whilst sensing the opposition first, then launch missiles or torpedoes.

So rough cost estimates should be valid, irrespective of the exact details.

Remember that you're trying to argue that a Chinese SSN somehow cost more than a British SSN, which just sounds wrong.
Look at the huge difference in costs for equivalent surface warships between the UK and China for example.

The cost of an SSN is a function of capabilities and capabilities frequently involve trade offs. If you want to determine the cost of a type 93 you first need to establish what capabilities China has built into its design. If you don't know you don't have a reasonable basis to project cost.

Yasen is expensive because it can dive deep, is fast, has the biggest weapon load and good sensors. As such it is reflected in its cost and displacement. They are all related. There is no free lunch. You get what you pay for. Seawolf can basically match those capabilities and why it is also very expensive. When the US moved onto the Virginia program it was a conscious decision to down grade some of those capabilities and consequently is cheaper to build. The Astute is cheaper because it is slower and cannot dive as deep as the Virginia. However the Astute has very good sensors and is very silent and why some have argued is better than the Virginia. After all, pump jets were invented by the British - the US just adopted it from the British.

The ability to go deep is a function of material yield strength and is a significant cost factor. Russian subs can go deep because it uses Titanium but it is incredibly difficult to weld plus the Russians compromise on safety (which is another story). The Seawolf use HS-100 steel and the LA class uses HS-80 steel AFAIK.

 

[Brumby]

edit
HS-100 and HS-80 should read HY-100 and HY-80.

 

[Brumby]

Quick submarine calculation :
600 M/mm^2 steel, 10 /11 meter diameter, 300/600 meter diving deep:
600 meter diving deep, 12 metric ton for each meter of submarine
300 meter diving deep , 6 metric ton for each meter of submarine

Diameter increase proportionally increase the mass ( 11 meter --13.2 ton/m)

Means a 100 meter, 600 meter diving deep submarine hull on its own has a 1200 tons (0 safety margin : ) ) , and without any internal support structure and so on.

With 50% safety it become 2400 tons .
The same for 300 meter is 1200 tons.

For 600 meter the leftover non pressure vessel mass is 50 tons / meter.

The leftover mass can be used for machines, weapons, propulsion, sound damping and so on.

Do you have a source for your equation? I am having a hard time understanding it and relating it to dive depths.

 

[ougoah]

Do you have a source for your equation? I am having a hard time understanding it and relating it to dive depths.

I'm going to guess these look like buoyancy calculations based off arbitrarily uniform volumes for displaced water with rough sub sizes. Don't think this is how diving depth on subs work though.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

Do you have a source for your equation? I am having a hard time understanding it and relating it to dive depths.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Google keywords : pressure vessel equation.

Pressure multiplied with radius , divided with max allowed material stress yield the wall thickness.

I just realised that the equation require radius, not diameter : )

Anyway, it means that if there is a vessel certified for a diving deep and a diameter , doubling any value will double the pressure vessel mass, and doubling both parameter quadruple the vessel mass.

Of course the fact it has negative pressure means the vessel won't flex out itself to the correct radius, but any manufacturing imperfections can collapse the structure ,depending on the level of error .

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Some interesting details about the future Chinese SNA Type 09V are revealed today in a shopping list of the Chinese army. We see the chassis and studs to reduce the noise transmitted to the hull, a low solid "3D", dive bars at the bow, sonars compliant ...

 

[azesus]

So that low sail H2600 was a small model 09V after all

 

[taxiya]

So that low sail H2600 was a small model 09V after all

maybe not a model of 09V, but certainly to test the design principle of low sail and many more.

 

[Air Force Brat]

edit
HS-100 and HS-80 should read HY-100 and HY-80.

Which are also difficult to weld, but very strong... the problem with Titanium is another matter altogether, Titanium cracks at the weld considerably more often than steel, but make no mistake, HY-100 is also very difficult to get a good clean weld on...

Why don't you elaborate on some of the design factors of the Russian sub that allows it to dive considerably deeper, feel free to include any observations on safety. Could or does China incorporate those design elements into their subs??