09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[asif iqbal]

I'm sorry you lot have no idea how much it costs to run a SSN or SSBN

UK spends over £2 billion per year on running 4 x Vanguard class SSBN, easily 6% of total military spending on 4 units

Boomers are notorious for cost, and this doesn't include missile, vessel and reactor maintenance

SSN are probably half that cost around £250 million per year per ship, UK nuclear submarine fleet consumes more than 10% of entire budget thats entire budget not just navy budget

now if you scale that up by 5 times or so 14 x SSBN and 60 x SSN your looking at over £20 billion, and btw increasing fleet does not decrease running cost

sure Chinese have lower running costs but are the Type 095 reactor cores for the lifetime of the submarine? how about mid life recycle and overhaul?

its not Childs play

 

[asif iqbal]

@Totoro

But that’s the good part. Hit them with the Soviet Union trick, make them overspend their economy to death.

China has a higher build capacity. If they commit down this road, they’ll match the USN numerically soon as well.

And China doesn’t even need match 1-1 to present an equal power, not if they keep next generation designs going so they remain a step ahead all the time.

I am sorry you have no idea how the US works its military budget you cannot bankrupt a country who literally trades all world oil in its own currency

the US could double its entire fleet and still fight another day

what was the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan like $2.4 trillion? never even made a dent

 

[Biscuits]

I am sorry you have no idea how the US works its military budget you cannot bankrupt a country who literally trades all world oil in its own currency

the US could double its entire fleet and still fight another day

what was the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan like $2.4 trillion? never even made a dent

The indebted US public, 2008 and it’s own military unable to fund stuff disagrees with you.

Printing more money only helps devaluing the currency.

Already the US is at a breaking point where it either has to prioritize keeping large amounts of “good enough” platforms running, or try to chase after new technologies.

The US does not have the industrial capacity to match China if the latter commits to a buildup. It’s only a matter of exceeding the Americans in numbers, which WILL be possible if China is only willing to recruit more people and not underspend on the army.

 

[antiterror13]

I am sorry you have no idea how the US works its military budget you cannot bankrupt a country who literally trades all world oil in its own currency

the US could double its entire fleet and still fight another day

what was the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan like $2.4 trillion? never even made a dent

well, some countries already trade oils with other currencies, so USD is not the only currency for oil trade anymore ... and with Trump aggressive foreign policy, it will get even worse overtime

2008 GFC which was started in the US .... more or less due to military over spending and huge debt ... the impact in the USA of GFC is huge ... see Chicago just one example, it was very beautiful city but now? nobody wants to live there

 

[Broccoli]

@Totoro

But that’s the good part. Hit them with the Soviet Union trick, make them overspend their economy to death.

China has a higher build capacity. If they commit down this road, they’ll match the USN numerically soon as well.

And China doesn’t even need match 1-1 to present an equal power, not if they keep next generation designs going so they remain a step ahead all the time.

USN doesn't have to worry about diesel submarines hogging resources from SSN's while China has dozens of diesel subs and they are building more... either PLAN is stuck in the past with their diesel subs or they don't plan to go anywhere near 1-1 with nuke subs.

Let's not go to bharat rakshak levels on here, mates.

 

[Biscuits]

USN doesn't have to worry about diesel submarines hogging resources from SSN's while China has dozens of diesel subs and they are building more... either PLAN is stuck in the past with their diesel subs or they don't plan to go anywhere near 1-1 with nuke subs.

Let's not go to bharat rakshak levels on here, mates.

Tell that to the Germans, Japanese and Israelis all making new SSKs?

With current tech, the SSKs will still make up a "high end" close to the shore due to unmatched quieting. Both niches need to be filled, extremely capable less endurance boats and slightly less capable unlimited endurance boats.

 

[ougoah]

Diesels are more useful to PLAN than SSNs. It's that simple. They are better for defending those local waters than SSNs. They are easier to build to a high standard. They are cheaper to build. They are less expensive to build. And they are quieter. SSNs projects are only alive for PLAN because they wish to one day expand influence beyond local waters and SSNs will be able to escort surface vessels far more effectively. SSNs also need to be constantly developed to keep up with emerging technologies because... well you have to keep practicing if you are interested in becoming good at something. SSBNs are not part of this discussion.

 

[tidalwave]

Diesels are more useful to PLAN than SSNs. It's that simple. They are better for defending those local waters than SSNs. They are easier to build to a high standard. They are cheaper to build. They are less expensive to build. And they are quieter. SSNs projects are only alive for PLAN because they wish to one day expand influence beyond local waters and SSNs will be able to escort surface vessels far more effectively. SSNs also need to be constantly developed to keep up with emerging technologies because... well you have to keep practicing if you are interested in becoming good at something. SSBNs are not part of this discussion.

No it's not.
The main theater will be SCS where mainland to spratley spans thousand of miles and water is deep

Diesel is good at ambush but the best sub hunter is another sub and that have to be nuke powered to give it enough speed and endurance to hunt down another nuke powered subs.

US is building SSN like there's no tomorrow. I think USN opinion is that PLA overbuilt too many surface vessels like 056, 054A, 052C/D, 055. USN believes the ace they having is their SSN, they can wipe out majority of PLA surface vessels and then attack mainland land targets.

To address this threat, PLA has to build more SSN to counter USN massive buildup of SSN.

 

[Lethe]

China will never match USN SSN numbers because the geostrategic environment is completely different such that SSKs are still very useful for China and more cost-effective. The ratio of SSK to SSN construction will shift over time in favour of the latter as China's SSN technology approaches the state of the art, but SSKs will remain an important part of the force, just as they are for Russia, and for the same reasons.

US is building SSN like there's no tomorrow. I think USN opinion is that PLA overbuilt too many surface vessels like 056, 054A, 052C/D, 055. USN believes the ace they having is their SSN, they can wipe out majority of PLA surface vessels and then attack mainland land targets.

US SSN construction program has very little to do with China and is driven primarily by the desire to replace as many ageing boats as possible in order to maintain the size of the fleet. Indeed, we have yet to see any change, or hear of any planned change, in the US submarine force that could be attributed to China. Of course, that is in part a reflection of how capable the existing force is such that no radical changes are needed, but nonetheless the lack of observable developments motivated by a desire to counter the "growing Chinese threat" is interesting.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Diesels are more useful to PLAN than SSNs. It's that simple. They are better for defending those local waters than SSNs. They are easier to build to a high standard. They are cheaper to build. They are less expensive to build. And they are quieter. SSNs projects are only alive for PLAN because they wish to one day expand influence beyond local waters and SSNs will be able to escort surface vessels far more effectively. SSNs also need to be constantly developed to keep up with emerging technologies because... well you have to keep practicing if you are interested in becoming good at something. SSBNs are not part of this discussion.

Yes, for the moment. They are quite suitable for China's relatively shallower waters. But this won't be the case from the next decade onwards. Once the carrier battle groups start taking shape and when the PLAN truely becomes a blue water navy, they will require a new generation of SSN. I think a CBG would have 2x SSN. They will require many SSN to protect China's growing overseas interests. SSNs are much faster, dive deeper and literally have unlimited range.

Regarding the acoustics, SSKs are very quiet when running on batteries, but modern SSN also have ultra-quiet modes in slow speeds. The Seawolf and Astute class are exceptionally quiet.