09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[mack8]

There isn't much information. A few years ago we saw a module with a diameter of 12 meters outside Huludao, which probably was a trial module. If you ask me they have the first 095 in construction right now. But this is still a personal speculation.

Thanks for your input, how long ago was that? Judging from the chinese carriers example, if i'm not mistaken demo modules are followed pretty soon by work on the ship itself, so probably it is indeed likely they must be working on the first hull/hulls by now. On average, how long did it took to go from laying down to launching the latest 093/094 hulls, just to have a rough point of reference?

 

[drowingfish]

It is not clear whether this ring was for the 095 or 096, since they are both going to be constructed in the same area.

China already has six 094 in service, so there is more urgency to 095 than 096. For this reason it is more likely to be 095.

 

[BoraTas]

It is not clear whether this ring was for the 095 or 096, since they are both going to be constructed in the same area.

I strongly suspect it is for the 095. SSNs have more uses for China than SSBNs. There is a weakness in underwater domain which is negatively affecting SSBN survivability too. Besides that, China's land based arsenal is credible for a second strike and is massively expanding as we write.

 

[BoraTas]

Thanks for your input, how long ago was that? Judging from the chinese carriers example, if i'm not mistaken demo modules are followed pretty soon by work on the ship itself, so probably it is indeed likely they must be working on the first hull/hulls by now. On average, how long did it took to go from laying down to launching the latest 093/094 hulls, just to have a rough point of reference?

I dug my old posts as I had shared it. It appeared on Google Maps in the January of 2023. I am not sure if photo was even older though. So it has been something between 2 to 2.5 years. Hard to say but I get single hull vibes from this shape too.

 

[tphuang]

Well here's the google AI answer:
A "strategic submarine" is primarily designed to carry and launch long-range ballistic missiles, serving as a key component of a nation's nuclear deterrent, while a "tactical submarine" is focused on attacking other ships and submarines on the battlefield, using torpedoes and other weapons for direct combat operations; essentially, strategic submarines are for long-range nuclear strikes, while tactical submarines are for more localized, immediate attacks.

Here's the Britannica answer:
…new kind of submarine, the strategic submarine. The other is a revolution in antisubmarine warfare, with attack submarines becoming the primary antisubmarine weapons. Attack submarines are armed with torpedoes and, in some cases, with antiship missiles. Strategic submarines may carry similar weapons, but their primary weapons are submarine-launched ballistic missiles…

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In the case of submarines, "strategic" has a very specific meaning, and means nothing other than "carries alot of SLBMS". Note that an Ohio SSGN is no longer considered a strategic submarine, but a tactical one, just like any other SSN with VLS tubes.

In my discussion with others, we've generally considered SSNs to be strategic platform. I'm not sure why Google AI or Britannica is the go to here. Since my original comment was meant to explain the importance of 095 to PLAN, I'm not sure why this is even turning out to be an argument.

Let's move on. This is not worth debating over. If it's not a strategic platform to you, that's fine.

 

[Blitzo]

Post replied here to avoid derailing the original thread.



Based on the information we have came across so far, we expect the 095 SSNs to be equipped with multipack VLS tubes, similar to the Virginia Payload Tubes (VPT) found on Virginia SSNs from Block 3 onwards.

Hence, we don't expect the 095 SSNs to be equipped with individual VLS tubes anymore.

As for the numbers - I think 24x VLS cells in 6x or 8x multipack VLS tubes arranged in a 2x3 or a 2x4 setting (respectively) is sufficient for a deep-ocean-going, high-speed and high-stealth SSN.

That is also my personal expectation.

We have strong indicators that 09V will use a multipack VLS where each multipack VLS is likely to be able to carry three weapons of a suspiciously YJ-20/21 esque appearance (or whatever the UVLS launched HGV/AShBM is called) or of similar size, and given what 09V's pressure hull diameter has been rumoured to be, I expect a "two per row" arrangement.

A column of 3 or 4 in a "two per row" setting would be quite doable (like you say, 2x3 or 3x4, where each individual multipack tube has three payloads).

 

[Jason_]

That is also my personal expectation.

We have strong indicators that 09V will use a multipack VLS where each multipack VLS is likely to be able to carry three weapons of a suspiciously YJ-20/21 esque appearance (or whatever the UVLS launched HGV/AShBM is called) or of similar size

Or possibly one JL-3

 

[Blitzo]

Or 1 JL-3

In terms of dimensions, yes.

I can't see 09V actually carrying any JL-3s in its VLS tubes due to the careful delineation of the nuclear deterrent role and the associated mission systems, crewing and authoritization needed, but it is not out of the question that 09VI and 09V may share the same overall tube size or design for their respective payloads (multipack vs JL-3) where they have the same "external tube/sleeve" but the inside is different.

 

[Kejora]

In terms of dimensions, yes.

I can't see 09V actually carrying any JL-3s in its VLS tubes due to the careful delineation of the nuclear deterrent role and the associated mission systems, crewing and authoritization needed, but it is not out of the question that 09VI and 09V may share the same overall tube size or design for their respective payloads (multipack vs JL-3) where they have the same "external tube/sleeve" but the inside is different.

Is the VLS going to be arranged like on Virginia Block V or Yasen?

 

[zyklon]

Sounds like 09V v. 09VI might be analogous to Ohio SSGN v. Ohio SSBN (though overall length may vary).

Am I reading this right?

In terms of dimensions, yes.

I can't see 09V actually carrying any JL-3s in its VLS tubes due to the careful delineation of the nuclear deterrent role and the associated mission systems, crewing and authoritization needed, but it is not out of the question that 09VI and 09V may share the same overall tube size or design for their respective payloads (multipack vs JL-3) where they have the same "external tube/sleeve" but the inside is different.

Is the VLS going to be arranged like on Virginia Block V or Yasen?