09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

we don't really know what that "hump" is on the 093B, right?

Yeah, it's still a bit of a mystery, however the noise being made from a variety of places seem to heavily suggest it is to accommodate VLS.
Personally I can't imagine what else it might be. It's all wrong for a drydock shelter, and there are no indications it's for docking a mini sub (not to mention those are relatively specialized capabilities for delivering SOF and I can't imagine PLAN putting those capabilities at the very top of its demands for SSNs).

I suppose it could be just a bulge resulting from additional interior volume possibly to facilitate noise reduction or other internal subsystems... but I imagine it would have been easier just to lengthen the 093 instead rather than insert a rather significant hump.
So in my mind I can't see PLAN willing to sacrifice the drawbacks of a hump (even if it is relatively small as on 093B) for anything too "trivial".

 

[antiterror13]

I tend to believe its a VLS system, what else could it be? PLAN wouldn't be bother for anything else but VLS system. And VLS system on SSN is becoming more common starting with LA class FLTII

 

[FORBIN]

Yeah, it's still a bit of a mystery, however the noise being made from a variety of places seem to heavily suggest it is to accommodate VLS.

All last reports i have read minimum 5 say it ...

Now with up to four new 093G which replace or in addition of the three 091 whose one have 31 years, futur SSN fleet can be btw 6/9 in few years vs 5 actualy.

 

[Skywatcher]

Yeah, that's something I'm a bit iffy about on the eastern arsenal blog as well, @Skywatcher.

As appreciative as I am of the relative speediness and accuracy of the blog putting out new information and pictures that we may get regarding new PLA toys, I think the blog sometimes jumps the gun a little either regarding specs, number of units deployed and whether a new project is even deployed in the first place.

While I can understand the need to generate a degree of "sensationalism" to attract a readership, it is probably worth prefacing most of the claims made on the blog, with something like "could have... XYZ capability" rather than phrasing it like such a capability is fully confirmed to exist. It may even be worth having an entry on the blog for just where the information tends to come from and the process (as well as inherent difficulty) of accurate PLA watching and reporting.

Eastern Arsenal is starting to get noticed by a number of western defence watchers and thinktanks and is considered a relatively "reliable" source by them given its affiliation with a relaitvely respected brand name (popular science, namely), while it also of course provides a good glimpse of new developments and capabilities which most traditional western PLA watchers and commentators ignore. But that also means there is a responsibility to provide relatively accurate information without hyping things up too much, imho

True, true.

We needed to put out a number (editing reasons and style), and assumed that the VLS number would be a multiple of 8.

 

[tphuang]

I tend to believe its a VLS system, what else could it be? PLAN wouldn't be bother for anything else but VLS system. And VLS system on SSN is becoming more common starting with LA class FLTII

We have humps on yuan and kilo. Do they look like they have VLS?

Having VLS modules installed in the same space in 093 means you have less space for everything else, which adversely affect 093B's noise level. Remember, the main problem with 093 is that it's very noisy. The first problem PLAN needs to solve is significantly lowering its noise level. They don't lack launch platforms for missiles.

True, true.

We needed to put out a number (editing reasons and style), and assumed that the VLS number would be a multiple of 8.

Or maybe state the very real possibility that there is no VLS.

 

[Blitzo]

We have humps on yuan and kilo. Do they look like they have VLS?

To be fair the humps on Yuan and Kilo are way different to what we can see on 093B, and there were no persistent rumours surrounding Yuan and Kilo having VLS which surrounds 093B.

That isn't to say I am a hundred percent confident 093B's hump is indeed for a VLS, but I can certainly appreciate why many are leaning to that direction.

 

[tphuang]

To be fair the humps on Yuan and Kilo are way different to what we can see on 093B, and there were no persistent rumours surrounding Yuan and Kilo having VLS which surrounds 093B.

That isn't to say I am a hundred percent confident 093B's hump is indeed for a VLS, but I can certainly appreciate why many are leaning to that direction.

Considering how little of a view we have on 093B, it's quite hard to say the humps on Yuan and Kilo are different to what we see on 093B. And considering the different profile of Yuan/Kilo vs 093B, it would not surprise me if the design called for hump that looks different. My point being is that conclusions are already made based on Chinese bbs speculations before we get even solid photos of 093B class.

Much of that is based on their beliefs that having VLS on Type 093B makes it a more advanced submarine and that makes China a step closer to catch up to US in nuclear submarine. I guess we will have to see once we get more solid photos coming out. And even then, it's hard to say for sure (refer to Type 032 as reference)

 

[Blitzo]

Considering how little of a view we have on 093B, it's quite hard to say the humps on Yuan and Kilo are different to what we see on 093B. And considering the different profile of Yuan/Kilo vs 093B, it would not surprise me if the design called for hump that looks different. My point being is that conclusions are already made based on Chinese bbs speculations before we get even solid photos of 093B class.

Well this is PLA watching after all, it goes hand in hand with speculation. So long as we all remember these are speculations, and that they are conveyed to any readers, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Much of that is based on their beliefs that having VLS on Type 093B makes it a more advanced submarine and that makes China a step closer to catch up to US in nuclear submarine. I guess we will have to see once we get more solid photos coming out. And even then, it's hard to say for sure (refer to Type 032 as reference)

Err I don't think skywatcher's piece was insinuating VLS on a PLAN SSN somehow makes a submarine more advanced or closer to catch up with US SSNs.
Oscar class SSGN could launch massive SLCMs from dedicated tubes before western submarines, that didn't make them any more advanced or quieter (latter being more important) than their western counterparts of the time.
As for what the rest of the PLA watching community thinks about SSNs and VLS; imo there are definitely some who would like 093B to have a VLS just because it is considered a staple for modern construction SSNs, but I don't think many of them would be serious enough to consider VLS more important than say, better acoustic stealth. Nor do i think we can conflate the persistent rumours of VLS on 093B as only from overeager fanboys.

It's funny you bring up 032, because 032 goes to demonstrate how easy it is to miss VLS on a submarine, it doesn't make the reverse true

 

[tidalwave]

True VLS doesn't make a sub quieter but is a must have feature for saturation attack. Topedo launched missile is a bottleneck.

 

[antiterror13]

well, this speculations and educated guess of PLAN hardware make the discussions very interesting, nothing really is certain, even you could argue whether Yuan really have AIP? nobody has seen the AIP module on Yuan

I think it is wrong to stop speculating and stop being enthusiastic of PLAN hardware ... I believe this is the backbone of this forum, the discussion of many uncertainties, doesn't really matter whether it turns up wrong or right