075 LHD thread

[AndrewS]

I think the 075 is probably more targeted for a SCS scenario than a taiwan scenario which might explain the small number built

In the case of taiwan it's probably more cost effective to build smaller landing ships and rely on ground based helicopters

For Taiwan, it's almost certainly more cost effective to buy the [Type-072A LST] over the [Type-075 LHD]

I reckon a Type-075 is easily $800+ Million
And a Type-072A is about $14 Million, based on the comparable cost of the Teluk Bintuni LST.

So 20 Type-072A would only cost one-third of a single Type-0975, but would have roughly twice the cargo capacity.

 

[blindsight]

For Taiwan, it's almost certainly more cost effective to buy the [Type-072A LST] over the [Type-075 LHD]

I reckon a Type-075 is easily $800+ Million
And a Type-072A is about $14 Million, based on the comparable cost of the Teluk Bintuni LST.

So 20 Type-072A would only cost one-third of a single Type-0975, but would have roughly twice the cargo capacity.

I support a plan mixing everything. More 075s & 071s for the future. A lot more 072As for Taiwan. But the 072A needs to be improved, esp. adding some close-in systems.

 

[zavve]

For Taiwan, it's almost certainly more cost effective to buy the [Type-072A LST] over the [Type-075 LHD]

I reckon a Type-075 is easily $800+ Million
And a Type-072A is about $14 Million, based on the comparable cost of the Teluk Bintuni LST.

So 20 Type-072A would only cost one-third of a single Type-0975, but would have roughly twice the cargo capacity.

KRI Teluk Bintuni was built for approximately $16 Million in Indonesian shipyards, Chinese average income is roughly double that of Indonesia. The Type 072A is also around double the tonnage of the Teluk Bintuni-class. I would be surprised if you could buy 60 Type 072A's for 1 Type 075 but that's just me.

 

[AndrewS]

I support a plan mixing everything. More 075s & 071s for the future. A lot more 072As for Taiwan. But the 072A needs to be improved, esp. adding some close-in systems.

A Phalanx CIWS is coming in at $15 Million these days.
That would be more than the estimated cost of an entire Type-072A.

So is it actually worth installing CIWS systems? You could buy more LSTs and Escort Frigates to compensate

 

[AndrewS]

KRI Teluk Bintuni was built for approximately $16 Million in Indonesian shipyards, Chinese average income is roughly double that of Indonesia. The Type 072A is also around double the tonnage of the Teluk Bintuni-class. I would be surprised if you could buy 60 Type 072A's for 1 Type 075 but that's just me.

The full load displacement of a Teluk Bintuni-class is 3800 tonnes. That is almost the same as the 4800 tonnes of a Type-072A.
Dimensionally, they are very similar

You will get differences due to varying exchange rates. Most of the time (and definitely in this case), it doesn't change the overall argument.

 

[blindsight]

A Phalanx CIWS is coming in at $15 Million these days.
That would be more than the estimated cost of an entire Type-072A.

So is it actually worth installing CIWS systems? You could buy more LSTs and Escort Frigates to compensate

I'm not sure whether the 072A is really that cheap now. Anyway, it’s not about the ship itself. You can never find a safe environment when you really need those landing ships. When they sunk with hundreds of vehicles, your whole mission would fail, which might, in turn, fail the whole nation. How much does that cost?

 

[AndrewS]

I'm not sure whether the 072A is really that cheap now. Anyway, it’s not about the ship itself. You can never find a safe environment when you really need those landing ships. When they sunk with hundreds of vehicles, your whole mission would fail, which might, in turn, fail the whole nation. How much does that cost?

A Type-072A only carries a maximum of 18 medium trucks on the lower deck.
My guestimate is that you could fit another 16 medium trucks on the upper deck.

Let's say that China builds a fleet of 30 new Type-072A LSTs. So if you add a $15 Million CIWS to them all, that is an extra $450 Million.

Instead, you could easily buy an extra Type-054A Frigate with a total of 32 medium-range SAMs and also 2 CIWS.
That is far more effective than 30 CIWS systems on 30 LSTs

 

[blindsight]

A Type-072A only carries a maximum of 18 medium trucks on the lower deck.
My guestimate is that you could fit another 16 medium trucks on the upper deck.

Let's say that China builds a fleet of 30 new Type-072A LSTs. So if you add a $15 Million CIWS to them all, that is an extra $450 Million.

Instead, you could easily buy an extra Type-054A Frigate with a total of 32 medium-range SAMs and also 2 CIWS.
That is far more effective than 30 CIWS systems on 30 LSTs

There’s no way for one 054A to cover the area you may deploy the 30 072As…

 

[lcloo]

The advantage of type 075, besides it size, is the flexibility of deploying troops on shore. It has helicopters and LCAC for high speed assault on the beach front as well as insertion of troops further inland from the beach front, and it can do commando raids as well. The speed of helicopters and LCAC also means that if the original planned landing site is too hot, they can quickly move to alternate landing site with little time loss. This is where type 072 is not capable of.

Financial cost is not an important consideration in initial phase of beach assault, human cost has priority. After establishing a safe beach front when transportaion of materials and reinforcement will be carried out in earnest, then cheap transpor ships (i.e. low financial costs) will play their roles.

In short, type 075 and type 072 have their own role to play, and they should not exclude each other.

 

[AndrewS]

There’s no way for one 054A to cover the area you may deploy the 30 072As…

True.

But we've established that using Type-054A frigates is a more efficient and effective means of air defence than more CIWS on ships, as a general rule.

But now consider that there are hundreds of transport ships comprising:

1. large amphibious ships (where CIWS makes sense)
2. smaller amphibious ships
3. many unarmed civilian cargo ships

Such a fleet would justify enough Type-054A Frigates to cover the entire route from Taiwan to Mainland China.

So I'm using the Type-054A as an example, but you could analyse with the Type-052D instead, which is roughly twice the cost of a Type-054A. You get a better radar to detect and track incoming missiles and the option of longer range SAMs. When the quad-pack SAM is ready - many more SAMs will be available and the cost per SAM launched should be cheaper than the Type-054A.