075 LHD thread

[Andy1974]

Arms races are actually won by calculating the costs versus benefits of every activity. That applies to business as well.

Buying Ka-52s means a closer economic and military relationship with Russia, which is now a quasi-ally.

If China wanted to do it by itself, it would take a few years and cost a lot more.
The military defence spending multiplier is generally between 0.6 and 1.2

So if China can buy these helicopters for half the price of doing it themselves, they can use the overall savings to fund something else instead. That works out better overall for both China and Russia. It's just another example of comparative advantage.

Then why don't armies just compare spreadsheets instead of actually fighting? It would save a lot of bother.,

 

[AndrewS]

Then why don't armies just compare spreadsheets instead of actually fighting? It would save a lot of bother.,

That should be the objective.

Every military should be trying to amass as much capability as possible for the lowest cost.

If it is obvious that one side is vastly superior, logic dictates that the other side should fold (without a war) in the face of near certain catastrophic defeat.

 

[AndrewS]

Tell that to Huawei.

China might buy some Ka-52s. But will develop her own improved version at same time.

It is clear that Russia needs China a lot more than vice-versa.

I do expect China to develop a naval attack helicopter in the future, but remember that Ka-52s are available now.
If China were to develop one, it would take another 5 years and would likely be much more expensive.

 

[broadsword]

It is clear that Russia needs China a lot more than vice-versa.

I do expect China to develop a naval attack helicopter in the future, but remember that Ka-52s are available now.
If China were to develop one, it would take another 5 years and would likely be much more expensive.

But can we be sure China has not been developing one?

 

[AndrewS]

But can we be sure China has not been developing one?

We can't be sure of anything haha

 

[Franklin]

The purchase of the Ka-52 Alligator is much about politics as its about capabilities. Its about China showing Russia trust and support in difficult times. China can easily make a navilized version of the Z-10 or a armed navilized Z-20. Those won't have the same capabilities as the Ka-52 Alligator but they will get the job done. The next attack helicopter from China will most likely be a further uprated Z-10 or/and a unmanned platform.

 

[Richard Santos]

Andrew your calculations never take into account the fact that China creates talent and develops skills every time it does something itself. nor do you consider the wider effects on the economy, such as providing jobs for all their graduates and making sure that no stone is unturned in their quest for mastery.

It is not always about money, yet you always consider that to be the most important factor, but wars are not won by accountants.

War, as well as peace, are lost due to failure to pay heed to accountants.

that doesn’t mean accounting is everything, but it is often the fatal thing.

 

[Andy1974]

Delete, off topic.

 

[by78]

War, as well as peace, are lost due to failure to pay heed to accountants.

that doesn’t mean accounting is everything, but it is often the fatal thing.

Hey Clausewitz, could you please not derail the thread by waxing philosophical yet again about some irrelevant tangent? We humble peasants of this forum are too obtuse to appreciate your brilliant polymathic mind. Please expound your profound knowledge at a more appropriate venue.

P.S. Do you have a degree in accounting too, in addition to your degrees in engineering physics and astronautics?

 

[tphuang]

I don't think we can dismiss the possibility of China purchasing Ka-50/52 just because they have other projects on the way. As we've seen with Su-30, Su-35, 636M, 051C and Sov class purchases, they are willing to place small purchases to gain immediate ability even if that means having a small fleet of aircraft or ships that don't use domestic system that they need to maintain. They value the need to train their forces sooner over waiting for better domestic options to come along.

It's quite interesting to me that they have not tried a naval version of Z-10s. Maybe they don't think it's well suited onboard amphibious ships. I see the main domestic options for 075 to be the various Z-8/18 versions and Z-20s. It's quite possible an armed version of Z-20 would work here. Although, I do think the long term play here is a larger dedicated 10-ton class attack helo similar to Ka-52. I'm under the impression that program is under development, but might not ready for service until 2025 or later. The question is whether or not PLAN desires a dedicated 10 ton attack helicopter in the next few years. If it does, then Ka-52 is very logical. It gives them time to train with it on Type 075. They can discover what works for them and doesn't. All of that would improve their own attack helicopter program. If they don't think a dedicated 10 ton attack helicopter is needed, then Z-8/18/20s are probably sufficient. The deck is long enough for UCAVs to take over some of that roles also.